I don’t know why everyone hated this show so much. I wish they had given it another season or two. The plts weren’t great, but the characters were good and worked well w/ each other.
see now, I thought that the plots were terrible and the characters were not very well done either. personally it was the combination of the very first episode when they had to strip down T’Pal and rub her with gel to ‘decontaminate” her. WTF?
And then there was the time traveling nazi aliens. The most retread star trek themes of all time, right?
And then there was captain incompetent and his star ship that we all know isn’t even as good as the original Enterprise was. ugh.
The first few episodes of TNG were awful, DS9 and Voyager weren’t much better. Star trek always takes time to work through the characters and where the story line is going. I just wish they had given it more time and effort to save it. I miss not having a Star Trek to watch every week.
Show definately sucked. Tiki was right, that fanservice from the first episode just sent everything downhill for me. Leave Baywatch out of my Star Trek please. TnG and DS9 FTW LOL OMG BBQ.
Btw, I’d like to put my “Key” in that Blalock, if you know what i’m saying.
I liked enterprise better than I did DS9. But yeah. Awful writing killed the show. Once they quit doing all the time travel bullshit I liked the last season though.
SumoSnipe (#4452)
15 years ago
That pic makes me think I’m looking through an old ‘ViewFinder’….
Favorite bit out of Enterprise? Empress Sato the First.
It’s true, all Trek series have suffered from bad production at the outset. TNG was bad before season 3 (best example: different doctor for S2). DS9 season 1 wasn’t all that great (the episode where Bashir was taken over by a dictator’s spirit was awful). Voyager had a few shining moments but didn’t really mature until season 5.
Enterprise suffered from a sad combination of bad acting, bad directing, and bad writing. Sometimes it even suffered from all three simultaneously (such as a few key points in season 2). ENT wasn’t any good until the fourth season, when suddenly things not only got better, the show was actually good. ENT suffered from a basic premise flaw. The whole Temporal Cold War storyline fell flat. Nobody cared about the Xindi. The fourth season was good because the stories were well-written and were actually about topics the audience cared about (Eugenics Wars, Klingons that look like humans, the Borg, the founding of the Federation, etc).
Trek has always been a character-driven drama. TNG and DS9 were good overall because it cast veteran stage actors in crucial roles (Picard, Data, Sisko, Kira, Odo) and received quality backup from other good actors (Riker, Geordi, Garak, Quark, etc).
The leading men of TNG and DS9, Patrick Stewart and Avery Brooks, were well-established actors with reputable resumes. VOY and ENT cast a bunch of nobodies, with the possible exception of “that guy from Quantum Leap.” Hint to producers: star power works.
Probably the biggest mistake Paramount made was creating a second series while one was already running (Voyager). DS9 was good, but it wasn’t as good as the studio wanted because…Picard wasn’t in it. So they brought Worf over. While the character actually fit in after a while, this shouldn’t have been necessary. Then, Voyager tried the same trick, but aimed low and exploited the “horny virgin Trek fan” demographic. ENT tried the same trick, but a sexy, half-naked Vulcan just doesn’t work. It’s insulting to have eye candy on a Trek show unless it’s handled correctly (JJ Abrams knows how to do it).
Uh…now where was my original point…
Oh yeah, Enterprise bashing. Probably the first bad production decision was naming the goddamn ship Enterprise. It violated established canon and smacked of attention-grabbing. Yes, you can have Star Trek without a fucking ship named Enterprise. DS9 proved that.
Yes, you can have Star Trek while also having quality acting. TNG and DS9 proved that.
Yes, you can have Star Trek while also having quality writing and arching storylines. DS9 proved that.
Trek went downhill once Voyager was conceived. Enterprise was merely a continuation. It’s like Paramount stopped demanding Trek be good and only requested that it exist.
Frankly, I wasn’t expecting any new Trek for at least a decade after ENT ended. That Hollywood actually stepped up and decided to (re)create something that was good came as quite a surprise to me.
Unfortunately, the chronological storylines that TNG and DS9 established, and that Voyager pecked at now and then, are surely dead. I wish Abrams weren’t doing a Kirk-era recreation, but rather something set after the Dominion War. Shit, it’s been ten years and a month since DS9 was discontinued. What happened to the Federation in the ten years after the Dominion War?
The TNG movies failed because overall they didn’t give us stories we could care about. Generations was a necessary bridge between the old crew and the new, and although many fans didn’t like it, I don’t have serious problems with it other than the obvious low budget. Shouldn’t have destroyed the Enterprise-D, though.
First Contact is easily the best TNG film. Borg, time traveling, and a foul-mouthed hero make for good times. The Enterprise-E’s awesomeness almost made up for the D’s destruction. Almost.
Insurrection and Nemesis are terrible. Nobody cared about the Bak’u and their regeneration planet. Nemesis was handled horribly. Completely wrong director for the material. Didn’t understand Trek. Gutted the script. Cut out key character scenes. Etc. Even then, the script itself was bad and the dialogue was inane. The ONLY good part in Nemesis was the fully 3D combat sequence.
As in the last post: what happens to Romulus after the Dominion War? They clearly went through some shakeup…the entire Senate was assassinated. Commander D’Natra appeared to be poised to take a moderate position of leadership in the new government. Would it be Federation-friendly? Would new treaties be signed in the wake of their alliance in the Dominion War and the presence of new Federation-friendly officials? Would the Demilitarized Zone be abolished? Would Starfleet be permitted to use cloaking devices on Starfleet vessels?
There is SO much good stuff to create in Trek, and Abrams decided to recreate Kirk and Spock. As a Trek fan, I feel blueballed. There is so much to do with the Klingons. How did Martok’s chancellorship have an affect on the empire? How did Worf’s position as ambassador change the relationship between the two powers? Would the Klingon Empire become less militaristic following the Dominion War? Would it apply for membership in the Federation?
How did Cardassia change after the war? It’s infrastructure was destroyed, it’s people the target of focused extermination. How would Bajor adapt to the loss of their Emissary after his ascension?
I don’t know why everyone hated this show so much. I wish they had given it another season or two. The plts weren’t great, but the characters were good and worked well w/ each other.
see now, I thought that the plots were terrible and the characters were not very well done either. personally it was the combination of the very first episode when they had to strip down T’Pal and rub her with gel to ‘decontaminate” her. WTF?
And then there was the time traveling nazi aliens. The most retread star trek themes of all time, right?
And then there was captain incompetent and his star ship that we all know isn’t even as good as the original Enterprise was. ugh.
The first few episodes of TNG were awful, DS9 and Voyager weren’t much better. Star trek always takes time to work through the characters and where the story line is going. I just wish they had given it more time and effort to save it. I miss not having a Star Trek to watch every week.
See now, yes TNG got better, DS9 was good from the start (and got real good when sisko got bald) and voyager….ehhhhh….
but I never got a feeling from the actors on ENT that they really meshed.
Unlike firefly where in the first episode it was obvious that the actors were well meshed.
I too miss having Star Trek around…deeply
Show definately sucked. Tiki was right, that fanservice from the first episode just sent everything downhill for me. Leave Baywatch out of my Star Trek please. TnG and DS9 FTW LOL OMG BBQ.
Btw, I’d like to put my “Key” in that Blalock, if you know what i’m saying.
*Elbow Nudge and High Five*
I liked enterprise better than I did DS9. But yeah. Awful writing killed the show. Once they quit doing all the time travel bullshit I liked the last season though.
That pic makes me think I’m looking through an old ‘ViewFinder’….
Favorite bit out of Enterprise? Empress Sato the First.
Vulcan skinny with boy hair vs Empress Sato… no comments.
It’s true, all Trek series have suffered from bad production at the outset. TNG was bad before season 3 (best example: different doctor for S2). DS9 season 1 wasn’t all that great (the episode where Bashir was taken over by a dictator’s spirit was awful). Voyager had a few shining moments but didn’t really mature until season 5.
Enterprise suffered from a sad combination of bad acting, bad directing, and bad writing. Sometimes it even suffered from all three simultaneously (such as a few key points in season 2). ENT wasn’t any good until the fourth season, when suddenly things not only got better, the show was actually good. ENT suffered from a basic premise flaw. The whole Temporal Cold War storyline fell flat. Nobody cared about the Xindi. The fourth season was good because the stories were well-written and were actually about topics the audience cared about (Eugenics Wars, Klingons that look like humans, the Borg, the founding of the Federation, etc).
Trek has always been a character-driven drama. TNG and DS9 were good overall because it cast veteran stage actors in crucial roles (Picard, Data, Sisko, Kira, Odo) and received quality backup from other good actors (Riker, Geordi, Garak, Quark, etc).
The leading men of TNG and DS9, Patrick Stewart and Avery Brooks, were well-established actors with reputable resumes. VOY and ENT cast a bunch of nobodies, with the possible exception of “that guy from Quantum Leap.” Hint to producers: star power works.
Probably the biggest mistake Paramount made was creating a second series while one was already running (Voyager). DS9 was good, but it wasn’t as good as the studio wanted because…Picard wasn’t in it. So they brought Worf over. While the character actually fit in after a while, this shouldn’t have been necessary. Then, Voyager tried the same trick, but aimed low and exploited the “horny virgin Trek fan” demographic. ENT tried the same trick, but a sexy, half-naked Vulcan just doesn’t work. It’s insulting to have eye candy on a Trek show unless it’s handled correctly (JJ Abrams knows how to do it).
Uh…now where was my original point…
Oh yeah, Enterprise bashing. Probably the first bad production decision was naming the goddamn ship Enterprise. It violated established canon and smacked of attention-grabbing. Yes, you can have Star Trek without a fucking ship named Enterprise. DS9 proved that.
Yes, you can have Star Trek while also having quality acting. TNG and DS9 proved that.
Yes, you can have Star Trek while also having quality writing and arching storylines. DS9 proved that.
Trek went downhill once Voyager was conceived. Enterprise was merely a continuation. It’s like Paramount stopped demanding Trek be good and only requested that it exist.
Frankly, I wasn’t expecting any new Trek for at least a decade after ENT ended. That Hollywood actually stepped up and decided to (re)create something that was good came as quite a surprise to me.
Unfortunately, the chronological storylines that TNG and DS9 established, and that Voyager pecked at now and then, are surely dead. I wish Abrams weren’t doing a Kirk-era recreation, but rather something set after the Dominion War. Shit, it’s been ten years and a month since DS9 was discontinued. What happened to the Federation in the ten years after the Dominion War?
The TNG movies failed because overall they didn’t give us stories we could care about. Generations was a necessary bridge between the old crew and the new, and although many fans didn’t like it, I don’t have serious problems with it other than the obvious low budget. Shouldn’t have destroyed the Enterprise-D, though.
First Contact is easily the best TNG film. Borg, time traveling, and a foul-mouthed hero make for good times. The Enterprise-E’s awesomeness almost made up for the D’s destruction. Almost.
Insurrection and Nemesis are terrible. Nobody cared about the Bak’u and their regeneration planet. Nemesis was handled horribly. Completely wrong director for the material. Didn’t understand Trek. Gutted the script. Cut out key character scenes. Etc. Even then, the script itself was bad and the dialogue was inane. The ONLY good part in Nemesis was the fully 3D combat sequence.
As in the last post: what happens to Romulus after the Dominion War? They clearly went through some shakeup…the entire Senate was assassinated. Commander D’Natra appeared to be poised to take a moderate position of leadership in the new government. Would it be Federation-friendly? Would new treaties be signed in the wake of their alliance in the Dominion War and the presence of new Federation-friendly officials? Would the Demilitarized Zone be abolished? Would Starfleet be permitted to use cloaking devices on Starfleet vessels?
There is SO much good stuff to create in Trek, and Abrams decided to recreate Kirk and Spock. As a Trek fan, I feel blueballed. There is so much to do with the Klingons. How did Martok’s chancellorship have an affect on the empire? How did Worf’s position as ambassador change the relationship between the two powers? Would the Klingon Empire become less militaristic following the Dominion War? Would it apply for membership in the Federation?
How did Cardassia change after the war? It’s infrastructure was destroyed, it’s people the target of focused extermination. How would Bajor adapt to the loss of their Emissary after his ascension?
AAUGH. I could go on forever, I think…
But we’re straying from the original point. I’d do Commander T’Pol.