A friend of mine has a Ph.D. in the fine arts; her fee to read poems is $10,000 a pop, and when she travels, her uni gives her an expense account, in addition to job security and a hefty paycheck.
Mine (not fine arts) is a similar track…and in addition to the above, we get summers off and a month during the winter holidays, plus spring break and no weekends ever, and most Fridays off, and I’ve never worked an actual 8 hour day since I’ve been in the profession.
Oh…almost forgot. You get published, you make a name for yourself, you get paid more. Doesn’t sound like “nowhere” to me.
“Mine (not fine arts) is a similar track…and in addition to the above, we get summers off and a month during the winter holidays, plus spring break and no weekends ever, and most Fridays off, and I’ve never worked an actual 8 hour day since I’ve been in the profession.”
By “profession” I assume you mean teacher or professor, which case you are lying. Professors work their asses off to get tenure, to get funding and to get better paying positions. I don’t know any professor in any field that works less than 72 hours/week. Its a sweet job if you have a true passion for the field, but its not the laid back wonderland you make it out to be.
Not to mention that for every tenure track position, there are an average 200 applicants. So for every person like your (imaginary?) friend, there are 199 PhDs who are still looking for work.
It’s true, you do have to work your ass off to get to that point, but once there, it’s as I described. We do get summers off, winter holidays, and weekends off—also most Fridays.
If you don’t know any professors who are working less than 72 hours a week, then either you don’t know enough of them, or the ones you do know are doing it wrong. One of my professors when I entered my Ph.D. program showed up at the office twice a week, taught two classes, had office hours, and went home. He wrote and published in his spare time because he loved to, not because he had to. He had TAs to do his grading, assistants to help with the office work, and a clause in his contract that this schedule would never change. Getting to tenure? It takes work. Once you’ve got it? All downhill. For me, it is a wonderland. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be doing it. Most of the stress is mental, but I’m certainly not out there busting my hump like my dad did, in the factory day in and day out for 42 years.
And again, I’m speaking to a particularly point: it’s definitely not a “go nowhere” job. If you want to debate particulars, fine, but don’t lose sight that, hard work or no, academia is certainly not a field without its merits—which was point here. Also, your numbers are wrong in that you claim that there are 200 applicants for every job, leaving 199 without work. Those 200 are applying for more than one job; job apps aren’t parsed, 200 applicants per position. So if there are 25 openings, there may be 200 applicants rather than 5000 (25 x 200), so when those positions are filled there would be 175, not 4975, people without employment.
And that’s not to say that everyone with a Ph.D. ends up teaching—editing, writing, consulting, &c., all pay well.
So, sorry to disappoint (?) you, but my friend is certainly not imaginary, and neither am I. Although as far as that goes, most of my friends are in academia, and I’ve only provided one example where I could have given dozens.
“so when those positions are filled there would be 175, not 4975, people without employment.”
My original, SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) was 199 out of 200 unemployment. Your SWAG is 175 out of 200. Given the uncertainty in our assumptions, do you really think that’s a significantly different figure? And we haven’t even begun to consider those poor souls that don’t get tenure. And this is completely excluding all the people who didn’t even get accepted to grad school in the first place. Academic positions are the tiniest percentage of everyone that gets a degree in a given field. Its like saying pro-sports is a lucrative field because a handful of people make millions.
“He wrote and published in his spare time because he loved to, not because he had to.”
So he does work a lot, just not in his office.
“Although as far as that goes, most of my friends are in academia, and I’ve only provided one example where I could have given dozens.”
And the plural of anecdote is not data.
You’re preaching to the choir and apparently completely missing the joke. I’m currently working on PhD in Philosophy and am a teacher and professor w/ tenure. Are you saying that none of your colleagues joke about how useless a PhD in philosophy is?
My joke about the Fine Arts degree was at the expense of 2 of my brothers and my mom who have degrees in Fine Arts and between them play dozens of instruments. My dad had Masters of Engineering and a PhD in Eng Lit and was a prof. My sister has a Masters of Eng Lit and is also a prof. We joke about this stuff all the time and have contests over whose students think their subject is the most useless. Our favorite competition is to see who can get the most students to complete the class and who has the least ‘drops’ after seeing the curriculum.
Makes you a good master-bater though.
It could be worse. You could have studied Fine Arts.
Considering my complete lack of talent in any and all Fine Arts…yeah, it could be worse, but not by much. 😉
Spoken like true ignoramuses.
A friend of mine has a Ph.D. in the fine arts; her fee to read poems is $10,000 a pop, and when she travels, her uni gives her an expense account, in addition to job security and a hefty paycheck.
Mine (not fine arts) is a similar track…and in addition to the above, we get summers off and a month during the winter holidays, plus spring break and no weekends ever, and most Fridays off, and I’ve never worked an actual 8 hour day since I’ve been in the profession.
Oh…almost forgot. You get published, you make a name for yourself, you get paid more. Doesn’t sound like “nowhere” to me.
“Mine (not fine arts) is a similar track…and in addition to the above, we get summers off and a month during the winter holidays, plus spring break and no weekends ever, and most Fridays off, and I’ve never worked an actual 8 hour day since I’ve been in the profession.”
By “profession” I assume you mean teacher or professor, which case you are lying. Professors work their asses off to get tenure, to get funding and to get better paying positions. I don’t know any professor in any field that works less than 72 hours/week. Its a sweet job if you have a true passion for the field, but its not the laid back wonderland you make it out to be.
Not to mention that for every tenure track position, there are an average 200 applicants. So for every person like your (imaginary?) friend, there are 199 PhDs who are still looking for work.
It’s true, you do have to work your ass off to get to that point, but once there, it’s as I described. We do get summers off, winter holidays, and weekends off—also most Fridays.
If you don’t know any professors who are working less than 72 hours a week, then either you don’t know enough of them, or the ones you do know are doing it wrong. One of my professors when I entered my Ph.D. program showed up at the office twice a week, taught two classes, had office hours, and went home. He wrote and published in his spare time because he loved to, not because he had to. He had TAs to do his grading, assistants to help with the office work, and a clause in his contract that this schedule would never change. Getting to tenure? It takes work. Once you’ve got it? All downhill. For me, it is a wonderland. If it wasn’t, I wouldn’t be doing it. Most of the stress is mental, but I’m certainly not out there busting my hump like my dad did, in the factory day in and day out for 42 years.
And again, I’m speaking to a particularly point: it’s definitely not a “go nowhere” job. If you want to debate particulars, fine, but don’t lose sight that, hard work or no, academia is certainly not a field without its merits—which was point here. Also, your numbers are wrong in that you claim that there are 200 applicants for every job, leaving 199 without work. Those 200 are applying for more than one job; job apps aren’t parsed, 200 applicants per position. So if there are 25 openings, there may be 200 applicants rather than 5000 (25 x 200), so when those positions are filled there would be 175, not 4975, people without employment.
And that’s not to say that everyone with a Ph.D. ends up teaching—editing, writing, consulting, &c., all pay well.
So, sorry to disappoint (?) you, but my friend is certainly not imaginary, and neither am I. Although as far as that goes, most of my friends are in academia, and I’ve only provided one example where I could have given dozens.
“so when those positions are filled there would be 175, not 4975, people without employment.”
My original, SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) was 199 out of 200 unemployment. Your SWAG is 175 out of 200. Given the uncertainty in our assumptions, do you really think that’s a significantly different figure? And we haven’t even begun to consider those poor souls that don’t get tenure. And this is completely excluding all the people who didn’t even get accepted to grad school in the first place. Academic positions are the tiniest percentage of everyone that gets a degree in a given field. Its like saying pro-sports is a lucrative field because a handful of people make millions.
“He wrote and published in his spare time because he loved to, not because he had to.”
So he does work a lot, just not in his office.
“Although as far as that goes, most of my friends are in academia, and I’ve only provided one example where I could have given dozens.”
And the plural of anecdote is not data.
give me ur job
All that education and you’re still an ass.
You’re preaching to the choir and apparently completely missing the joke. I’m currently working on PhD in Philosophy and am a teacher and professor w/ tenure. Are you saying that none of your colleagues joke about how useless a PhD in philosophy is?
My joke about the Fine Arts degree was at the expense of 2 of my brothers and my mom who have degrees in Fine Arts and between them play dozens of instruments. My dad had Masters of Engineering and a PhD in Eng Lit and was a prof. My sister has a Masters of Eng Lit and is also a prof. We joke about this stuff all the time and have contests over whose students think their subject is the most useless. Our favorite competition is to see who can get the most students to complete the class and who has the least ‘drops’ after seeing the curriculum.
It may get you nowhere, but at least you can be philosophical about it. 🙂
What do you do if a guy with a philosophy degree shows up at your door?
Pay for the pizza.