AlecDalek – clever name btw:

Have you ever read any of the Hamas Charter?

A few yes. Racist bs. What’s that got to do with the above issue?

dieAntagonista: can you refer to what you are talking about more specifically?

The republicans just want to make money off the status quo at the expense of the rest of us. They arent however like the Islamofacists who talk daily about exterminating the rest of us. Don’t believe me? Go check out their media.

@AlecDalek:
I’ll try, thanks.

@dieantagonista:
You make some good points. I stand partially corrected. Its true – saying all muslim men abuse their women is racist and you’re right and I’m sorry.

About the positive assumptions I made about Jews wherever they go, it isn’t based on nothing. If your education is as good as it otherwise appears to be you’ll know about all of the Jewish scholars and scientists, artists, doctors, and musicians who have contributed to bettering the world over the centuries.

I don’t assume that all Jews are good and nice. I’ve known as many Jewish assholes as I have gentile. Kommissar is saying Jews should die and I’m saying they’ve more than earned their keep.

Lets look at Israel again: how often do you hear of a country getting off of the list of developing nations?

Also, Israel has the highest population of scientists per 1000 people in the world.

Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in
the world.

In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of
startup companies in the world.

In absolute terms, Israel has the
largest number of startup companies than any other country in the
world, except the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the US. outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

Israel’s $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined. On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech start-ups.

Twenty-four percent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees –
ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland – and 12 percent hold advanced degrees.

When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she
became the world’s second elected female leader in modern times.

When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli
rescue teams were on the scene within a day – and saved three victims from the rubble.

Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship – and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 – in the world.

Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth.

Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious
freedom, and economic opportunity, and find it.

Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process,
an international standard that certifies diamonds as “conflict free.”

According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry’s
most impenetrable flight security. U. S. officials now look to Israel
for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

Israel has the world’s second highest per capita of new books.

Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century
with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because
this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

Medicine… Israeli scientists developed the first fully
computerized,no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper
administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical
treatment. Every year in U. S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from
treatment mistakes.

Israel’s Givun imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so
small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the
inside, the camera helps doctors diagnose cancer and digestive disorders.

Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the
heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among
those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the
heart’s mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

Technology… With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and start-ups,
Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world
(apart from the Silicon Valley).

In response to serious water shortages, Israeli engineers and
agriculturalists developed a revolutionary drip irrigation system to
minimize the amount of water used to grow crops.

Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per
capita.

Israel leads the world in the number of cientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola, which has its
largest development center in Israel.

Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US
in Israel.

A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the ClearLight
device,produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band
blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct – all without
damaging surroundings skin or tissue.

An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale
solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in
southern California’s Mojave desert.”

All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by
having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other country on earth. This from a country just 55 years young having started off life on a very frontiers-like basis, whose population had mostly just emerged from the devastating World War II years.

Need I go on?

I’m not the chauvinist you may think. There are lots of slacker Jews, lots of criminals, just like in any other ethnic group but you can focus on the negatives of any group if you want. Don’t be such a self-hating Lefty. Have some pride. We’re not the best. Nobody is the best. But we’re damn good.

And yet in the muslim world, women have no rights outside of the house.

You’re right, Muslims aren’t the only people who have their women cover up. The treasured beauties thing is the other side of the coin of which I speak. Either way its limiting the rights of women. Other ethnicities do it too, however in other cultures the consequences for not covering up aren’t as severe.

Theres a saying about people with Aspergers Syndrome that if you’ve met one person with Aspergers, you’ve met one person with Aspergers. They’re all unique in other words. It is true with people of any given background. However what makes the Muslim treatment of women unique is the extent to which they apply control. If women really had all the power that you say in those cultures, there wouldnt be a need for a women’s liberation movement in Saudi Arabia or Iran, for instance. Women don’t have rights in the Muslim world. India, which also has a restriction of women’s rights, is getting more egalitarian as the years go by. The countries in Eastern Europe and elsewhere that you cited aren’t even the same league as the Muslim world when it comes to this issue. Nowhere is perfect but it is worst in the Muslim world.

@dieantagonista:

re: your other response, I would like to point out this one thing first: how often is it you hear of an internet argument cooling down like this? We’ve achieved something here! (I think?)

Israel isn’t the only reason for antisemitism today. The press’s portrayal of the place, and their collaboration with the Palestinians, and ignoring of good things that come from Israel, are largely to blame. The point I’ve been trying to make in all of these posts is that Israel has been and is being judged unfairly. The root causes of modern antisemitism are largely based in misinformation and biased reporting:

When the media report on deaths on both sides, they typically follow a pattern. They refer to the Israeli dead as “Israelis,” and will use more words to describe the Palestinian dead, such as “civilians, women, children, doctors, barbers” etc. No descriptors are used if the Palestinian dead are mostly or all militant in nature. When the Palestinian’s say something happened, the media report it as fact. When Israel says something has happened, they say “Israel says ___.” For instance: “today X number of Palestinians were killed in what Israel said was a response to attacks…” The media never report good news from Israel, and as you can see from the Israel21C site, there is loads of it to go around, including stories of Israeli humanitarian and cross-cultural work with Palestinian communities. If any good news is reported, it is from the Palestinian side. The press calls Palestinian terrorists “militants”. The press never questions or challenges anything a Palestinian interviewee says. The press downplays or buries any story of Palestinian terrorism. The press neglects to report on the Palestinian government’s treatment of its own people. Even if a story about Israel isn’t all negative, it usually revolves around some kind of conflict that doesn’t paint Israel in a positive light. What is more, the press in Europe refers to Pro-Israel lobbies as “Jewish Lobbies.” The Economist has on a number of occasions, for instance. The press buries and downplays reports of violence against non-Israeli Jews the world over.

If Israel is still all Zionist then I am Mickey Mouse. 70% of Israelis are against the settlements in the West Bank from what I’ve heard. Zionists think that Israel’s right to be is based on religious stuff. Most Israelis I suspect don’t think that way anymore. If Israel is so imperial, why haven’t they pushed the Palestinians out already? The occupation by the way is many things but it isn’t actually illegal. I think it should end, which usually suprises a lot of people when i say it at family gatherings, but I also acknowledge that if Israel pulled out of the West Bank and uprooted all of its settlements there, no matter how old, we’d likely see another Gaza crisis.

If you’re referring to domestic policy re: zionism, I have to say: so? and really? There are a lot of double standards in the domestic laws that make me uncomfortable. However Israel is progressing in spite of its Zionist roots, you have to admit.

You can be proud or not of whatever you like. Thats cool. We all relate to the legacy of our ethnic background differently. I stand up for my side and go on about the good we’ve done because it offends my sense of justice when my side is judged unfairly, demonized, and threatened with its life. If it weren’t for murderous assholes and ignorant racists, I probably wouldn’t give a damn.

I’m glad our dialogue has stayed substantive and not degenerated into insults. Thanks for that.