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A little too small, and lame from what I can see.
Agreed. I can barely read who I’m supposed to kill, and that sort of list is the last thing you want to misread.
Repost, I think?
If it is, the other one is legible.
If not, hunt for it, it is on the internet somewhere.
Hurts my eyes.
Found it.
It is awesome.
Indeed, Awesome!
Good job, LukeV1-5.
One of my favorites, back when I thought that people would respond to logic. I’m mostly too cynical to care anymore.
I like that poster. I fills me with happiness.
Yeah alright, good points. But it ignores the entire non-literal way of interpreting things. And if anything, it does not prove that there is no god, only that believing in the bible literally brings contradictions with it.
Well, yes. I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely anti Christian, just anti fundamentalist.
@...LukeV1-5: Mhm, I guess. But it’s much like young earth creationists who think they can prove god, by disproving evolution, when people disprove the bible and think therefore they’ve also disproved god.
I love this pamphlet, but it’s a waste of time. The people who it is directed at, Christians (and particularly fundamentalists) are far too stupid to understand logic, and most are too stupid to read.
HATE Christians.
hahahahahhahahah it’s not directed at Christians dude.
Huh? I have yet to meet a fundamentalist Christian who can’t read.
“HATE Christians” Ah yes, you sure seem to be one open-minded fella.
As if it isn’t easy enough to point out the contradictions, they have to make up stuff.
“Kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man” – That’s out of context. It wasn’t meant as a general rule what men should do with all women. It was after a war, if I remember correctly. I know even in that case it’s barbaric, but no need to add as much rubbish as possible, only to make them look worse.
@...brisingre: You do not help the cause by speaking like an ignorant dingleberry.
It’s not a waste of time. If it helps a single person recognize the problem with organized religion so that they can start forming their own opinions instead of regurgitating what they were brought up to think… then it’s done it’s job.
I don’t care if people believe in god but I think that spirituality is a personal thing. Something that can be shared with others but should not be controlled or dictated.
Ugh… I shouldn’t, but I will anyway:
Deuteronomy 25 –
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.
The bible is archaic and doesn’t apply to the modern day. It really didn’t apply back then either, but who cares?
(I am so contradicting myself from earlier here)
Here’s how I see it:
1) The burden of proof falls on the positive existential proclamation.
2) Therefore, baring proof, the default assumption is something doesn’t exist. (A book is not proof).
3) If it doesn’t exist, I shouldn’t have to worry about it.
4) If people attempt to dictate my or others’ lives or actions based on something that doesn’t logically exist, it’s a problem.
Kinda simple, really.
Finding out that your parent put the presents under the tree doesn’t disprove Santa Claus.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk: I agree, except for the, doesn’t logically exist part. If a god were to exist, I don’t think it would be illogical. Any more than love would be illogical. I see a lot of logic behind the idea of a god.
Yes it’s easy to use this idea to dictate other’s lives with it, just like you said, but that doesn’t mean the idea of a god in itself is also deceiving.
more like hybrid ? as i am myself. i look at it pretty simple, i dont believe in that illogical book called a bible written by man. but my own spiritual opinion is that i believe there is a god. but that christian thing is bs they preach peace and love and if u against them they murder and lie .. so much for peace and love eh
@...dieAntagonista: Hey, if that’s your thing. I remember one argument for God’s existence that made a logical fallacy that perfection exists, therefore “god” must exist. Nevermind that perfection is both a human construct and an opinion.
At any rate, you misconstrue my words. As you can see from my previous statement, existence without evidence is illogical. So there remains the burden of proof.
I’m curious what your logic is, though.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk: Ah I see. Well even if that’s the case for you, one could argue that the world should be proof.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not on the intelligent design bandwagon, but the same way scientists say the big bang was a cause, I could imagine that a ‘god’ caused the big bang.
There is this one guy who has supposedly the highest IQ in all of America, who said, we are all part of god, because the universe is god’s mind. This is just about how I imagine it. Not in the sense of a thinking, judging being, but just the source of all.
Though I don’t believe in heaven, hell or sin, those ideas have humanity written all over them.
Other than my consideration of a god, science is my religion. But to me, one is not possible without the other.
The second paragraph is baloney. The idea, and explanation, is the same as when you’re a baby – YOU DON’T KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG.
If you don’t know, you’re ignorant, you can’t comprehend it because you don’t have all the information necessary. The idea is that the forbidden fruit had the essence of this knowledge in it (a kind of super smart food)
On top of that, I don’t know where they get the “inherited sin” stuff, I never read that. I’d like to see a reference there.
At least a handful of the scriptures actually handily reference are taken out of context. Christ (supposedly) fulfilled the law, and while the law still stands, its stated plainly elsewhere that his fulfillment of the law after martyrdom removes the strict judgment of those laws.
Whether the community was supposed to continue following them or not never seemed clear to me, but the gist as I always understood it was “yeah, don’t do this stuff, but if you do, remember the forgiveness I offer” which doesn’t mean do it and be forgiven, it means truly feel remorse and change your ways and be forgiven.
That said, I don’t consider myself a Christian by any means, but picking things apart like this disgusts me. There was definitely some FUCKED up shit in the bible, and it still bugs me, but the one thing I tell people to remember (and then they want to stone me) is whether or not it was inspired by God, it was authorized by man, and interpreted and translated by man. Don’t take it at face value.
And another thing – The bible doesn’t denote the 25th of December. That was baloney made up by the ancient Roman Catholic church. It was taken from other religions as a way to bring those religions into Christianity – I don’t particularly like the Roman Catholic Establishment, but they knew how to bring in the uneducated masses.
“If you don’t know, you’re ignorant, you can’t comprehend it because you don’t have all the information necessary.”
That’s the point,why were they punished if they literally could not know right from wrong? Doesn’t sound like a very just god.
“On top of that, I don’t know where they get the “inherited sin†stuff, I never read that. I’d like to see a reference there.”
Its a Catholic doctrine, but not all denominations recognize original sin.
“its stated plainly elsewhere that his fulfillment of the law after martyrdom removes the strict judgment of those laws. ”
No, it doesn’t. Citation needed. The argument over whether Christians needed to follow Jewish law was still being fought long after the New Testament was completed.
I don’t read the bible anymore. I don’t have these memorized. Maybe I’m a product of brainwashing.
As for the the first point you made – He gave them on task – Don’t eat the apple, because you shouldn’t. I’m not saying its fair, but its what it is. If you can’t even succeed at not eating from ONE tree in a huge garden, that’s problems.
I also still believe that the creation story was symbolic more then serious, and that a scientific explanation with some sort of mysterious hand makes the most sense, simply because I can’t explain how particles just “were” and then “collided” but I can explain that a God is a God and that’s a God who was always God and is not made of mass or energy but is outside of our scope of understanding and I don’t have to understand it because it doesn’t make sense and never will be able to explain why particles “were” and then “collided”
And capitalizing god there is just an old habit.
“Repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins†(Acts 2:38)
There’s a lot of scriptures that say it, but again, man wrote it and then translated, its hard to really understand what the hell they were actually saying unless you know the old languages. I certainly don’t, another reason why I don’t currently consider myself a Christian. I don’t have the time or want to actually learn that. So I guess that makes any further or previous points I make moot.
@...dieAntagonista: Okay, well, allow me to go Socratic on you.
In what way is the world proof? Keep in mind we already disproved the “perfection” hypothesis.
Also, a high IQ doesn’t necessitate right. IQ is just the measurement of a tendency to notice patterns. Man must still interpret those patterns. That comes from training, which itself comes from the environment. The same genius that crafted the pyramids at Giza also believed in using crocodile feces as a contraceptive.
It would seem that you believe in Spinoza’s God. It’s a kind of a “harmony is god” point of view. My personal opinion is that, at that point, why bother to call it god?
Spinoza also believed in a mind/body duality which was disproved by biology and psychology, but that’s both a digression and something I addressed with intelligence and environmental effect.
Actually, I like this, but peopel are confused as to what it does. This pamphlet disproves RELIGION! Which I find easier to do recently. But it doesn’t disprove God. Which I like.
I believe God exist, he fits very nicely into my model of the universe; so far, I can’t find any inconsistencies.
The world doesn’t need religion, the world needs God.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk:
The world to me is proof, as in for everything that is, there must be a cause. And after studying what many philosophers and the likes have said, what else but a god could cause all this? I know that seems naive, but considering things like love, nature and human behaviour – suddenly it does not seem so naive any more.
It’s the first time I hear of Spinoza actually, and I guess yea you could say I agree with ‘harmony is god’.
The word god is such a terrible thing, I know what you have in mind when you hear it, but honestly it’s the only choice. It’s been abused by so many, and just like RSIxidor wrote, even the bible has been mistranslated.
I don’t know if you have heard of Dr. Joseph Murphy, but he wrote many books which explain it exactly. How if there is a god matters, but how ridiculous the idea of heaven, hell, and sin is.
I could really spend hours explaining to you why a god seems logical to me, and how I feel it’s been proven. But since you obviously need different proof than me, I doubt there’s anything I could say that would make it seem logical to you.
Which is ok. I consider myself to be a very skeptical determinist so I do understand where you’re coming from.
Haha and oh no. I didn’t mean that his opinion is any more valid just because he’s got such an high IQ. I just mentioned that to explain how that man got my attention.
Hehe oops. Sorry, it’s more than I thought. But I really enjoyed this conversation. Usually people just laugh at me, when I say I’m not part of any religion but I do believe in a god. Probably because I hang out only with Catholics and atheists.
@...TGGeko: I hope you’re being ironic.
The world doesn’t need God either. God hasn’t done anything that’s good for the world.
Religion was formed as a way to explain things when we didn’t have computers, calculators, microscopes and all that stuff called TECHNOLOGY. Humans, being the curious little shits they were, couldn’t stand it, so they made up stuff to explain stuff. VOILA~ instant religion. Christianity is hob-kobbled crap for all other religions. Pick the scraps up and sew your own religious patch work quilt! That’s what the bible is. Countless religions have existed before Christianity, so why is Christianity the one true faith? I think all of us know that the Earth has been around for more than 6000 years ( if you don’t, go shoot yourself, plix plox ) yet Christianity says that Earth isn’t older than that. That sounds like a pretty damn stupid thing from a one all powerful religion. Fuck that.
Actually religious people could do math on paper or in their head before calculators: they didn’t even let me use calculators in grade-school math class until calc I think.
Atheist here, and I’m just gonna throw it out there that even the fanciest TI calculator probably hasn’t swayed anyone from the faith.
@...dieAntagonista: No problem, but to continue the Socratic train of thought and to allow you (and in a way, me) to better understand your point of view:
Why must the cause be the human definition of “god?”
To clarify, you have also not quite provided ‘proof.’ With the question, “…what else but God could have created all this?” you shifted the burden of evidence to the negative existential argument, which as we’ve shown before, rests on the positive existential proclamation.
@...awfulintentions:
‘God hasn’t done anything that’s good for the world.’ – so you do believe in a god? You can’t think Christians are full of shit, and at the same time be angry at their god.
And I don’t see how young earth creationists are so threatening to you that you should tell them to go kill themselves.
So if you figured it all out so perfectly, why look down on others that haven’t?
I don’t understand what’s with the arrogance.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk:
Ha yes, that was a perfect analysis of what I just wrote.
I have to admit, there’s an obvious gap.
But at this point I have really nothing but negative existential arguments for you.
Look, if somebody were to prove somehow that there’s no way a god caused the big bang, for example, I would consider atheism even more so.
But right now? A god fits too perfectly in the picture, to just dismiss it as nonsense.
And yea, it’s all based on what I see, hear and feel. If anything, the world is the only concrete proof to me.
If god is something similar to love, it’s hard to present the kind of proof a rational being would need to believe in it.
Not because either of them is unprovable, but because you cant perceive the proof in a rational way.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk: While it may be fucked up and barbaric, that bit from Deuteronomy is actually about fairness, of all things. It boils down to “If two men are fighting, it should be a fair fight, and anyone who interferes should be punished.” I guess back in the day the only form of punishment they’d thought up was chopping bits off people, since they seem fond of that in the Bible, but there you have it.
@...RSIxidor: There’s nothing wrong with capitalizing God when you’re writing about the Christian god, since it’s his name, grammar dictates it should be capitalised. Except when you’re writing about god or gods in a general sense, then capitalization isn’t necessary. Yay confusion! Although capitalising “him” and “he” is taking it a bit far, methinks.
@...AgZed: Just being pedantic: the Christian god’s name is not God, it’s YHWH or some translation thereof.
@...dieAntagonista:
“DAMN IT, OBEY SCIENCE!IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE THEN YOU ARE DUMB AND MUST BE KILLED!” But in all seriousness Die i’ve agreed with every point you’ve made.
i just have a huge headache… this is not good tryna read this at 3:39 AM and havent gotten a good “official” sleep/rest
@...thelotuseater725: Haha, awesome. High five!
@...MonkeyHitman: Hey that’s my time exactly. You must be from Europe.
And I’m an insomniac as well, just have a glass of water and an aspirin maybe.
@...dieAntagonista: Maybe it’s a requirement to be an MCS user. Heh.
It’s only 7pm here though… but I won’t be in bed faking sleep until 3 or 4am.
The YHWH That Failed.
@...dieAntagonista:
Yeah only difference between you and me is that i believe in the jewish/christian god. But other than that you more or less have the exact same views on religion/god as i do. *high five back*
@...dieAntagonista: Bist du Deutsche? Diesen Freitag muss ich nach die Schweiz fahren, weil ich jemand in Lausanne treffen muss. Zum Glück sprecht er Englisch, weil mein Französich schlechter als mein Deutsch heutzutage ist. 😛
I’m assuming German because of the “die.” If not, my bad.
I’m assuming your done with the religious debate. That’s fine. I just got out a meeting and need to get my eat on. If you ever get curious about other possibilities for the big bang, look up universe expansion and contraction. Though I seem to remember it’s contradicting the bubble universe theory these days or something… can’t think… need flesh, er… meat!
@...thelotuseater725: Yes I know (: It’s mostly those who believe in the Jewish/Christian god who can relate to what I wrote.
@...Paul_Is_Drunk:
Haha. Very nice. Nah I live in Austria. So you’re gonna visit Swiss, sweet. The only neighbour country I’ve never been to. Yah my French is horrible as well, heh. I think you’re an American in Germany, right?
Yeah, the ‘die’ is German but you can also read it in English as in dying. Clever, I know.
@...outofocus: Another sleep faker, that makes me feel really good about myself. Haha, yes the most curious people are on MCS.
Only way i fall asleep is by chewing 12 benadrylls and washing it down with warm water. After an hour i begin tripping balls and get tired and fall asleep. It tastes horrible and i am pretty sure i am developing some sort of organ failure because of it.
@...dieAntagonista: i live in holland .. and if i could only afford a asprin..
btw this topic had 2 much seriousness time for some laughter
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