Tell me exactly what laws that fanatics and ISIS supporters would follow.
Any? 
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Howzabout the one where they can’t find anyone to sell them a gun because everyone else is obeying the fucking law that bans those kinds of sales? Christ people are fucking stupid, and those that make memes are the most bone-fucking-dense of them all.
How did that work out for Paris?
Incredibly incredibly better over the years than America – like incredibly
Uh, right. My bad. What was I thinking. 11/13/2015, 130 people didn’t die. Because they banned out guns. There were any terrorists performed terror act because they couldn’t find any guns in Paris. They all live happily ever after.
And how many people die in America every year from what your media tragically calls “everyday gun deaths” as well as all the massacres you have had involving legal guns, let alone illegal ones and terrorist attacks?
Typical reactionist gun nut response – I love how none of the athiest/christian massacres have been terrorists.
Do you think the people in Paris would want to swap places? They wouldn’t.
Actually how many people did die because they had no access to guns? Do you have the first fucking clue about what actually happened there, all the locations, all the time, all the run ins with the Paris armed cops?
When did the french ban guns exactly? (cue your quick google search)
Talking out your arse mate
In America, you have “a Paris” every single day. Between 90 to 120 die in America every day… and you’re going to hold this up as an example of why we would want this same bloody madness here?
Yes, it is a happily ever after here… we don’t have another 35,000+ annually killed or another 70,000 wounded and maimed for life. The comparisons are asinine.
I’m not sure what you’re point is. Is it that you want everyone or other countries to live with this form of twisted mentality. Everyone carrying a firearm, everyone ready to do their neighbour in as the slightest skirmish or disagreement? What sort of quality of life is this… because certainly, using America as any sort of example for this – it surely doesn’t seem to be working out for you. Geez.
I’d much rather be a fucking stupid person, than be a pollyannaish, rose colored glasses wearing, one.
Howzabout simply realizing that there is currently a massive underground market for firearms that will continue to exist, whatever the law decrees.
Have you ever truly read the 2nd amendment?
Do you really understand what it is really for?
Have you heard of Australia? Tell me exactly…. Oh i give up, you will want your toy regardless
Well then… why didn’t you stay silent?
because i wanted to point out your stupid statement, just a turn of phrase really 🙂
To keep the British out and overthrow the sitting Gov if found to have gone off track, neither of these scenarios will ever occur, even if you were part of a standing Militia, which was another requirement of that musket right that knew nothing of full auto nine mm weapons.
while we do not agree, you have replied with a reasoned, reasonably informed opinion. I can respect that.
how exactly is
“I’d much rather be a fucking stupid person, than be a pollyannaish, rose colored glasses wearing, one.
Howzabout simply realizing that there is currently a massive underground market for firearms that will continue to exist, whatever the law decrees.
Have you ever truly read the 2nd amendment?
Do you really understand what it is really for?”
A well reasoned response?
Oh my, what thin skin you have!
I stand by my statement.
Yea great nice evasion – your response was not reasoned
and don’t try and come the moral high ground now, you stomped in 1st with a patronising, insulting and ill informed post – excuse me for responding with another patronising and insulting one – I mean it’s not like we are talking about countless deaths or anything
You realise the rest of the world would be laughing at you if it wasn’t so awful and depressing – That such privileged an developed nation would have such a problem with this – the rest of the world – think about it.
The idea (that you put forward) that more guns make people more safe is statistically false and completely moronic.
To respond rationally, your statement –
“Howzabout simply realizing that there is currently a massive underground market for firearms that will continue to exist, whatever the law decrees”
Is not true – when you make guns illegal (see Australia and many others) or tighten the rules (see Scotland and many others) it makes it harder for bad people to get guns and use them – So gun violence goes down.
In the UK black market for guns you would have to morgage your house for the cash, know the right folk and risk a HELL of a lot just to get a gun – people don’t risk that just to rob £50 from a shop or have a gun at home because it’s cool – hence gun crime goes down MASSIVELY.
You miss the point: Guns, knives, tooth & nail, or a piece of string; there are always weapons to be had.
It’s people that we need to be cautious of.
so explain why your murder and assault rate is so much higher than everywhere else – guns and that culture play no part in that do they?
30000 a year!
You are suggesting that if guns were illegal and there were actually less of them (which is a direct result of enforcing a law against them) that every one of those gun related deaths would be replaced by a knife/fist/bat etc related one
That is obviously not true
Nelson: Now you’re just simply acting a babbling prat; of course there is no “one to one” correlation.
Then why did you say
“You miss the point: Guns, knives, tooth & nail, or a piece of string; there are always weapons to be had.
It’s people that we need to be cautious of.”
one way or the other dude, you are just grasping at straws and going in circles.
You have not demonstrated how keeping guns legal in America keeps people safe. And you can’t because it doesn’t
Could you at least answer one of my questions? like the one about your really high murder rate – the one thats about four times that of the average western european nation and almost three times that of Canada. You were going to explain that gun culture isn’t contribnuting to that? or perhaps going to explain how it’s worth it or something?
nelson – this little fact is not generally acknowledged by anyone during the gun control debate but white Americans have violent crimes rates, as victims and perpetrators that are very similar to those rates in other industrialized nations. The violent crime rates for African Americans, as victims and perpetrators, are 5x to 20x those of white Americans depending on specific crimes and how rates are calculated. I realize this knowledge is racist and therefore not to be acknowledged but there it is. London has a higher violent crime rate than NYC, NYC was trending down for decades, until the current leftist idiot came into office, while London has been trending up for decades. The places in the US with the most restrictive gun laws also have the most gun crime. Obviously, prohibition, of alcohol, drugs or firearms is not an effective strategy.
@Nelson I’m not sure where you are getting your information nelson but the FBI web site collects all crime stats in the nation and publishes them. 2013 is the current newest you can view but you goes back for more than 20 years. Crime in general, not just violent crime has been on the decline in this nation for decades. I’m not sure really where you are getting the 30k a year in this country for murders. In 2013 there were 14,196 murders in America of those 8,454 were with firearms. Not 30k. I do know that the fbi also reports all firearm useges as well in their report but that includes murders as well as reported defensive usages as well as officer related shooting. As I said above crime has been going down consistently in America for decades even as the ownership of firearms has increased greatly. Simply put the argument that more guns equals more killing is wrong by simply looking at what has happened in America for 20 years. As for America having more violent crime than other countries that is a complex issue that requires quite a bit of study and understanding. The simplest of these issues to explain is the number of cities in the US that are over a certian number of people. America has more of these cities than other countries. I wish I could find the study I read a few years ago on this that studied developed nations crime and populace numbers but it found, not surprisingly, that the more people packed into close quarters caused more crime but it also noted that cities that went over a certain number of people increased its crime rate out of proportion with the rate up to the point. It wasn’t something just observed in America but in every country. If I ever find the study again I’m printing it so I don’t lose it again. Anyway on the the second point of contention for comparing America’s crime rate to the world. We all don’t consider the same things violent crimes. What the UK and Australia report will never match up at a glance with America. You have to go through each countries crime reports, which more the UK and Australia do publish and run your own spread sheets to get the real crime rate comparison. Then you will need to look at population numbers of the respected countries take into account the number of cities with a population over the threshold (sorry not quoting number as like I said can’t find the study) and the total populace of the country to get a better idea of the true disparity between the US and countries like Australia.
That is just covering crime reports for America vs just two other countries. Most of America’s violent crimes take place in the States with the heaviest gun controls. Where the criminals are armed and most the citizens are not.
Tell me exactly how many of the 30,000+ yearly gun related deaths in America are caused by “fanatics”…..?
Considering that the FBI says that number is 14k, less than half the number you just quoted, I have to ask are you asking a real question or are you throwing about a large number with no understanding of what you are saying?
The CDC numbers are consistently 30K+ gun deaths yearly over the past decade.
Seriously.
Look it up.
I think I’ll stick with the FBI’s numbers which are backed with factual data.
www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/murder-topic-page/murdermain_final
Out of those 14k murders 8k were firearm related. Out of those a vast majority of them were gang related with gang on gang crime taking place in cities with the toughest gun control laws.
For the CDC’s numbers to be correct they would have to be in possession of crime reports that where never reported to the fbi. That isn’t happening. Considering that the FBI receives a report for all crime in america and compiles it each year for everyone to view the cdc having access to 16k+ more murders a year that go unreported or tracked by law enforcement is absurd.
I see the problem here….you can’t read.
No, I’m pointing out an important fact here. The rest of the CDC numbers include suicides. People who wish to kill themselves will do so with or without the need of a firearm. Using them to artificially inflate a number is absurd. Suicides are tragic but using them in a campaign to mislead people into thinking more people are murdered a year than actual are is dishonest. If you don;t think that is the case you only have to look above to nelson’s post where he uses the 30k deaths a year but implies it is all from murders. Considering the actual number is 8k and 30k is over three times the actual number, you may begin to see the dangers of using numbers and information in a discussion that primarily focuses on criminal use of firearms. I mean if you want to use honest information and don’t want to use lies to get your point across.
The CDC numbers are lies now?
As for suicides, there is some evidence to suggest that in many cases the suicidal urge is temporary and can pass.
Easy access to a firearm makes the likelyhood of survival slim, as most other forms of suicide take more planning and effort.
But even if we stick to your straight “murder” numbers, a large percentage of murders are spur of the moment rage or passion induced.
And by seemingly regular folks, not career criminals.
Reasonable gun laws could prevent many of these.
If any of you antis actually willing to do your research. You will find In US, the violence crime rate has been steady trending downward. And gun ownership have continue going up.
If you even bother to check with FBI data base (which is open to public). You will see there are more people die in by rock/hammer/bludgeon object than your so call “assault rifle” (which none of you idiots even know what is actually a assault rifle anyway).
Stop letting your emotion get over your head. I don’t agree blame tragedy on religion, race, gender nor guns. Establish more gun laws will not help in US.
oh sorry, I forgot it’s OK if it’s with a “normal” gun and not a fucking military weapon. Such denial
what a fucking joke
Ha, you see. What did I said about do your own research? The number of death by “rock/hammer/bludgeon object” were more than “Long Guns”
That brain dead antis like you will keep refer as “assault rifle”, so I stop correcting you.
Enjoy your life under the rock and believe whatever you see on media. The reason you are “hearing” more and more of gun violence was because that’s what people want to see on tv. It’s not necessary there are more gun violence happen.
My final respond. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusion. Every time you willingly give up your right, that right is gone forever.
Have a good day.
Oh for gods sake take the fucking point – it doesn’t matter wjat your definition is, it doesn’t matter – they are all guns and the fact that they are legal and prvelant in America contributes hugely to it’s violence and murder problem. Just live with it mate
I don’t hear about Gun violence from your crazy public media. That gave me a head start on my research, why don’t you check into some (gasp) non-US media and articles about how nuts EVERYONE else thinks your policys are
Tens of millions more firearms since the early 1990s and the death rate from the use of firearms is half what it was then. Mot claiming cause and effect, although there is plenty of credible research to support that conclusion, not even claiming correlation. But it is blindingly obvious that politicians and gun restriction advocates have not crafted a single law in 100 years of trying which have prevented one crime or saved one life.
This meme seems kinda silly, i.e: why have laws against murder, when people will still murder? Why have laws regulating banks, since they cheat and steal anyway?
It seems to me a line must be drawn, and a lot of people think modern America has laid down this line in the wrong place.
I don’t see a solution, not an easy one, but I guess important things are worth fighting hard for. I believe Gandi got a whole nation liberated without guns, maybe something that miraculous could happen here.
Then again, I’ve heard everybody in Sweden… Switzerland? … somewhere have guns like they are required, and everyone loves them peaceful vikings.
I don’t own a gun, but have fired one (and it was fun).
However, I bet if I had a gun shoved in my face, I’d probably want them gone, and quick, too.
but how? Ban gun movies? make bullets cost $1,000,000 per round?
Why hasn’t the government put sedatives in our tap water yet? happy, lazy people!
The law is specify punishment for violating the rights of others. Confiscating my firearms when I have not violated the rights of anyone is immoral.
Looks like I hit the bees hive with this one.
First of all, nobody answered the question.
Second, we can’t even stop people or drugs from poring over the border, what makes anyone think that another gun law will stop guns from being illegally imported?
Third, (according to wiki) “Gun violence is most common in poor urban areas and frequently associated with gang violence, often involving male juveniles or young adult males.” Has anyone ever disarmed a complete gang? What good is another law going to do about this problem?
I’m not trying to be Pro or Anti, just being realistic.
Remember when alcohol and tobacco became problems and laws were put into place what can and can’t be put on tv or advertised? Perhaps the same stance should be taken on guns. Stop fucking glorifying them in the movies, on tv, in music and so on, and maybe the public culture can change for the better.
Nobody answered the question because it really isn’t a valid question.
Unfortunately, statistically “Fanatics” are a very small part of the gun problem in the USA.
The real question is how many deaths could be averted with stronger gun laws?
The experience of just about every other Western nation is “an awful lot.”
The CDC states that over 100 children a year are killed in gun “accidents”.
Lawn darts were banned based on stats of less than 1000 injuries a year and 2 child fatalities.
But there’s no National Lawn Dart Association, is there….
1. You’re not going to stop criminals from getting guns.
2. Criminals aren’t the ones committing the majority of mass shootings that we keep hearing about from the USA.
3. Just because you can’t stop guns getting into the hands of bad people doesn’t mean that having sensible laws to restrict how easily people get guns is a bad thing.
Every country has laws which are meant to protect the safety of people, gun laws are just one category.
You can’t include terrorists in the same group as the mentally unwell or as criminals as their motivations are completely different – as a group – the individual may be very sick.
On a side note, I may just be hearing about it more but it seems to me that gun violence in Australia is increasing – I don’t know why and I hope I’m wrong but I feel like I’m hearing more reports of people being shot.
1. If you commit a mass shooting you are a criminal. Unless you’re in a jurisdiction where it is not against the law to shoot other people. 2. Actually, the vast majority of shootings with multiple victims are gang related; they just do not get the coverage that other more sensational shootings seem to generate. 3. We already have something like 10,000 gun laws on the books. Do you think anyone can craft one more law which will be effective where the existing 10,000 laws failed.
1. Obviously but I’m sure you realise that I was making a distinction between someone you might call a career criminal and someone who was living an apparently normal life and then commits a mass shooting such as this.
2. That doesn’t surprise me. I imagine that there are other differences in both the methodology and nature of the victims.
3. A misleading statistic. Many of those 10k will be repetitions of the same laws in different jurisdictions and I wonder how many of them are actually about keeping weapons out of the hands of dangerous people. The other fact is that in the US you seem to be able to buy weapons and ammunition which many countries simply won’t let the general public have.
You ask whether 1 new law can be effective where 10k have failed, so you’re acknowledging that they have failed. One law is unlikely to fix this, that would be stupid to assume, but does that mean that you don’t try?
France – gun controls
3.01 gun deaths per 100,000 people per year.
Gun controls fail to stop the massacre of 130 people in a single event. This event causes the annual death rate from guns to jump 15%
Canada – looks like USA, but with gun control
2.22 gun deaths per 100,000 people per year.
USA – no gun control
10.5 gun deaths per 100,000 people per year.
Approximately 33,000 Americans die annually from guns.
On average, it takes less than a day and a half for 130 people to die from guns in America.
When gun control countries have 3 to 5 times fewer deaths than in America, it is not up for debate whether gun control works.
And something like 60% of those American deaths are suicides. Do you believe that if someone wants to kill themselves but they do not have a gun they will not kill themselves? Do you believe that someone who kills himself using something other than a gun is somehow better off than someone who uses a gun? Take out the suicides, adjust for the extremely high rate of violence among African Americans and white Americans have firearm related deaths and violence similar to those countries. Restricting the rights of all Americans will not help those in the inner cities who are faced with horrific violence everyday. Gun control does not work in the US, everywhere it is tried gun violence is at epidemic levels and typically only gets worse, rarely does it get better. See Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Washington D.C. and basically any Democratic run big city for examples of the failure of gun control laws in the US.
I find some Americans (Fox news types, herein “you”) have a unique perspective on rights and freedom. The rest of the free world empowers the people, who see injustice, and force their government to create laws for the betterment of society.
The people excercise their rights and demand that the government does what they can through public policy to ensure people can be free to walk the streets knowing that while their country isn’t disarmed, it has done what it can to reduce the potential for their sons and daughters to be senselessly gunned down by a law abiding AK47 owner. 5 times less likely in fact.
Where you, have gobbled up NRA misinformation, lobbist campaigns, and wontonly equate facts with opinion. Problem is, there is no truth to it but you dont give a fuck and keep beating the drum just as your flag waving NRA told you to. In short, you gave up your freedoms when you decided to lazily ignore facts and drink fully from the fictitious NRA gospel. You sir, are a chump and the furthest thing from being free.
I’ll give this, you aren’t afraid to step on a few toes. I’m military trained, in fact, a weapons expert – I like guns, my dilemma is I fell in love while abroad, got married and now reside in a country (community) where firearms apart from hunting are banned.
In the states, I bought into the NRA message, because in my neighbourhood it worked to our advantage. Not knowing better, I really thought this was the only true way people lived. I grew up in East LA, went to sleep to the sound of gunfire each night, walked past bodies on my way to school, for fear of stray bullet coming through walls I never slept in a bed until I joined the military. I’ve seen enough violence and death for two lifetimes and that’s not even counting my two tours of duty.
Firearms do have their place… if you have to live that way and you have to battle it out everyday, I understand. Losing a few family members is only the toughest around the holidays.
I believe it’s a little late for America now, the gun-ban won’t ever work there. Americans are stockpiled and armed to the teeth, everyone there are just going to have to suck it up and realise that living in fear and death is now going to be a part of their culture and makeup. It appears, that apart from the boo-hoo anguish and daily heartache – Americans really don’t have any real intent on changing this – they keep voting the same political leaders in Congress every election. Americans have succumbed to this, and many just don’t know any other way to live. Firearms play a major role in their lives everyday.
On the whole, most Americans have never lived abroad, apart from military, experiencing or understanding other cultures or ways of living… I believe that many Americans really do believe this is normal – that others in different parts of the world live with just as much violence and bloodshed daily. The Paris tragedy was so blown out of proportion by the media – you would think we were all living in fear here. If any thing came of that tragedy it’s that Europe is now going through a wake up on more openness, awareness of one another and a forgiveness and understanding (personally, too much for my taste but I understand why).
I’ve lived here almost 24 years and had a difficult time giving up my guns “for protection of my family”, I’ve slowly learned to assimilate to life here. We live in a large city, in a very diverse multi-cultural ethnic neighbourhood. It’s not perfect but it’s about as close as it could be… we have our share of small crime. Honestly, we don’t even have locks on any doors and the Sony is still here. No, we don’t live with alarm systems or gated communities here.
The one thing I’ve most had to learn is how to live without fear – unarmed.
Shitpost.
Well eurousa, I too was in the military and trained with weapons (expert marksman with M-16, and loaded weapons on F-15’s). Never had a problem, nor seen a problem with them. I don’t pay much attention to propaganda like the NRA, they’re pro-guns nothing new to see. I grew up in the subs of Detroit and never had to deal with gunfire, sleeping on the floor, or seeing dead bodies. Guns were not a problem, worse thing I saw was some blood in high school from someone that was knifed. I’ve lived in lots of states and the only gun problems I’ve seen are here in Anchorage, and they’re mostly drug related, hoodlums, and gangsta wannabees.
The war on drugs is an expensive failure, and the same will be said about the war on guns. I’ve owned two guns for decades and only had to use them once for self-defense. Guns aren’t the problem, it’s the people using them. No matter what anyone says about statistics, it’s a fact that our culture is much different than most others. Americans are not Canadians, so comparing us just because we are neighbors is useless.
You can say we have a “gun problem” all you want, what we really have is a “culture problem”. Is it a culture of death, greed, power, or a combination of them or others? You decide. Laws won’t fix the problem, but it doesn’t mean that I don’t want the problem fixed. It would be nice to live like the Brady Bunch or Leave it to the Beaver or some other peaceful utopia, but that ship has sailed.