There is always going to be someone make more and less then you are. Just keep in mind to live within your mean and help other as much as you possibly can. Forcing a rich CEO to give up his money make as much sense as ask the poor janitor to empty his saving account for the starving kid in Africa.
Charity come from the hearts and willingness. Not force.
The law can’t force someone’s heart to be charitable, but the law can (and does, and should) force people to show a minimum amount of respect to each other. There’s no need to require a CEO to “give up his money”, but there seems to be a need to keep them from exploiting their company’s most powerless workers. Of course he is entitled to a percentage of the contribution to the company made by each of his workers. However, we should be careful not to frame this discussion to appear like the workers are taking money from the CEO personally rather than merely taking home what they earn doing their jobs.
Workers contribute, are entitled to a wage, and have recourse in the law. Their situation is not equivalent to a starving child in Africa, to whom we should show charity if we feel charity, and where we are entitled to give what we can give without coercion.
Solution: Set a maximum limit on the ratio between the CEO’s pay and the median pay of the lowest 10% of workers in his company. That way, he’s still rewarded for his work and can still be extremely rich, but if he wants a higher salary, he has to raise his own workers’ minimum wage. There’s no penalty for his success, but he has to acknowledge the contribution to that success of his labor force.
Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream tried this more than a few years ago and they had to abandon the idea because they could not get anyone worth anything to run the company for them.
Cut the CEO’s salary in half and employees (based on 15,000 personnel) get a whopping 15 cents an hour raise. Or find someone to work for a token annual salary of $1 and the workers get 30 cents an hour. Don’t be so fast to be so generous with other people’s money or to use the police power of the State to enforce laws and policies that try to pick economic winners and losers. Fascism is fascism no matter how you dress it up and no matter how much you claim it is for the good of everyone.
I don’t know where Ben and Jerry’s placed their limit, and I didn’t say the ratio limit had to be low, nor that the federal minimum wage should be abolished. I would probably set the limit higher than the current average. It would mostly be a mechanism to curb the outrageously high salaries and slow down the growing income disparity. It’s not written like a law, it would have to include so many more stipulations for all the ways that CEOs earn money from their companies besides their contractual salaries.
I said nothing of cutting CEO’s salary in half, but thanks for throwing some numbers into the discussion. Looking at those numbers, I would say that my proposal wouldn’t have much impact on the company you describe. It has more to do with making sure that company success and growth benefit all the workers, not just those at the top.
I suspect that nobody would take Ben and Jerry’s because it was one company trying to do the right thing while competing in the market for CEOs. Everyone has to play by the same rules. When regulations change, everyone adjusts and competes under the new rules.
I also said nothing about picking winners and losers. I’m not a socialist or a capitalist — I’m a human and a pragmatist. I’m just throwing out a possible solution that tries to play to the strengths of the capitalist system (rewarding success and ingenuity, growth through competition, etc.) while still protecting the vulnerable.
Thank you for constructively contributing to the discussion. My solution isn’t watertight, it was really meant just to prompt response and get feedback.
15 cents an hour for everyone sound much fairer than an extra couple of million for one guy.
And I bet it would go a long way toward improving employee morale.
It isn’t about the money exactly…..its about respecting everyone who contributes to the profitability of the organization….
Just for giggles, substitutes “Sports Figure/Athlete” or “Actor/Actress” for “CEO” and see if that changes your View. Fact is that to get the rare Person who can actually do the Job (be it running a Company, playing sports at a Professional Level Performing a Role), requires you to pay them what they are worth.
The issue isn’t limiting the CEOs wages, it’s insuring that all the people in the company make enough to live on. If a CEO costs 9.6 million and increases the profitability of the company by 20 million he or she is worth it.
But if the way they increase profitability is just to slash wages in times when people can’t find work elsewhere, forcing them to live off food stamps and state supplied medical care then they’re just thieves stealing from us all.
Give them their pay, but make them earn it by building the business and paying others fairly as well.
This is a position I can agree with in many ways. It would require government over-site, however, as corporation leaders are unlikely to attribute their own success to income inequality or class conflict; and the increasing monopolization of both media and marketplace prevent most individuals from being aware of these events or able to respond effectively.
The privatization of the prison system is an example of where these apply. Privatized prisons are expanding because they are less costly than federal prisons. Their main reason for being less costly, however, is reduced wages, benefits, and training. There’s also an inherent conflict of interests between for-profit prisons and the public good, as prison unions frequently lobby (in their interest) for increases in sentencing.(I’m thinking of the criminalization of nonviolent drug offenders in California, for example, where the prison officers’ union is one of the loudest voices for mandatory sentencing.)
The neoconservative argument emphasizes personal freedom, property ownership, and inequality; saying that regulation is harmful to personal incentive, and unfair to those who have already achieved wealth and power. Despite the frequent indulgence in corporate welfare (write-offs, stock bonuses to circumvent income taxes, tax-breaks for expansion, compensation for hiring low-income workers, etc) and market regulation (product loyalty laws, patent laws, price setting, international trade agreements, etc) which protect their interest, they still claim that regulation = fascism because, in reality, they don’t care what you think.
Fen (#)
10 years ago
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”
– Robert Heinlein
Fen (#)
10 years ago
“The neoconservative argument emphasizes.. inequality”
Nope. They emphasize Liberty. While the Left believes that Equality trumps Liberty. Along the lines of Rush’s song where “the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and saw.”
So wtf is you exact point? HE built a company with countless JOBS, and YOU ignorant ass, HOW can scoff that? You NEED to get your priorities straight. I’ll bet you are under 25 too…
There is always going to be someone make more and less then you are. Just keep in mind to live within your mean and help other as much as you possibly can. Forcing a rich CEO to give up his money make as much sense as ask the poor janitor to empty his saving account for the starving kid in Africa.
Charity come from the hearts and willingness. Not force.
would an RPG to the head be enough force?
The law can’t force someone’s heart to be charitable, but the law can (and does, and should) force people to show a minimum amount of respect to each other. There’s no need to require a CEO to “give up his money”, but there seems to be a need to keep them from exploiting their company’s most powerless workers. Of course he is entitled to a percentage of the contribution to the company made by each of his workers. However, we should be careful not to frame this discussion to appear like the workers are taking money from the CEO personally rather than merely taking home what they earn doing their jobs.
Workers contribute, are entitled to a wage, and have recourse in the law. Their situation is not equivalent to a starving child in Africa, to whom we should show charity if we feel charity, and where we are entitled to give what we can give without coercion.
Solution: Set a maximum limit on the ratio between the CEO’s pay and the median pay of the lowest 10% of workers in his company. That way, he’s still rewarded for his work and can still be extremely rich, but if he wants a higher salary, he has to raise his own workers’ minimum wage. There’s no penalty for his success, but he has to acknowledge the contribution to that success of his labor force.
Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream tried this more than a few years ago and they had to abandon the idea because they could not get anyone worth anything to run the company for them.
Cut the CEO’s salary in half and employees (based on 15,000 personnel) get a whopping 15 cents an hour raise. Or find someone to work for a token annual salary of $1 and the workers get 30 cents an hour. Don’t be so fast to be so generous with other people’s money or to use the police power of the State to enforce laws and policies that try to pick economic winners and losers. Fascism is fascism no matter how you dress it up and no matter how much you claim it is for the good of everyone.
*citation required.
I don’t know where Ben and Jerry’s placed their limit, and I didn’t say the ratio limit had to be low, nor that the federal minimum wage should be abolished. I would probably set the limit higher than the current average. It would mostly be a mechanism to curb the outrageously high salaries and slow down the growing income disparity. It’s not written like a law, it would have to include so many more stipulations for all the ways that CEOs earn money from their companies besides their contractual salaries.
I said nothing of cutting CEO’s salary in half, but thanks for throwing some numbers into the discussion. Looking at those numbers, I would say that my proposal wouldn’t have much impact on the company you describe. It has more to do with making sure that company success and growth benefit all the workers, not just those at the top.
I suspect that nobody would take Ben and Jerry’s because it was one company trying to do the right thing while competing in the market for CEOs. Everyone has to play by the same rules. When regulations change, everyone adjusts and competes under the new rules.
I also said nothing about picking winners and losers. I’m not a socialist or a capitalist — I’m a human and a pragmatist. I’m just throwing out a possible solution that tries to play to the strengths of the capitalist system (rewarding success and ingenuity, growth through competition, etc.) while still protecting the vulnerable.
Thank you for constructively contributing to the discussion. My solution isn’t watertight, it was really meant just to prompt response and get feedback.
15 cents an hour for everyone sound much fairer than an extra couple of million for one guy.
And I bet it would go a long way toward improving employee morale.
It isn’t about the money exactly…..its about respecting everyone who contributes to the profitability of the organization….
First, I assume you are mistaking fascism and socialism.
Second, I’d like to know what your thoughts are on corporate welfare.
Just for giggles, substitutes “Sports Figure/Athlete” or “Actor/Actress” for “CEO” and see if that changes your View. Fact is that to get the rare Person who can actually do the Job (be it running a Company, playing sports at a Professional Level Performing a Role), requires you to pay them what they are worth.
No one is saying that pro-athletes or actors are worth such exorbitant wages, either.
wat. that makes my head hurt, do you actually believe that CEOs are on the same level as a physical competition?
would enjoy seeing some of those tubby white guys try to fun run
The issue isn’t limiting the CEOs wages, it’s insuring that all the people in the company make enough to live on. If a CEO costs 9.6 million and increases the profitability of the company by 20 million he or she is worth it.
But if the way they increase profitability is just to slash wages in times when people can’t find work elsewhere, forcing them to live off food stamps and state supplied medical care then they’re just thieves stealing from us all.
Give them their pay, but make them earn it by building the business and paying others fairly as well.
This is a position I can agree with in many ways. It would require government over-site, however, as corporation leaders are unlikely to attribute their own success to income inequality or class conflict; and the increasing monopolization of both media and marketplace prevent most individuals from being aware of these events or able to respond effectively.
The privatization of the prison system is an example of where these apply. Privatized prisons are expanding because they are less costly than federal prisons. Their main reason for being less costly, however, is reduced wages, benefits, and training. There’s also an inherent conflict of interests between for-profit prisons and the public good, as prison unions frequently lobby (in their interest) for increases in sentencing.(I’m thinking of the criminalization of nonviolent drug offenders in California, for example, where the prison officers’ union is one of the loudest voices for mandatory sentencing.)
The neoconservative argument emphasizes personal freedom, property ownership, and inequality; saying that regulation is harmful to personal incentive, and unfair to those who have already achieved wealth and power. Despite the frequent indulgence in corporate welfare (write-offs, stock bonuses to circumvent income taxes, tax-breaks for expansion, compensation for hiring low-income workers, etc) and market regulation (product loyalty laws, patent laws, price setting, international trade agreements, etc) which protect their interest, they still claim that regulation = fascism because, in reality, they don’t care what you think.
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”
– Robert Heinlein
“The neoconservative argument emphasizes.. inequality”
Nope. They emphasize Liberty. While the Left believes that Equality trumps Liberty. Along the lines of Rush’s song where “the trees are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and saw.”
So wtf is you exact point? HE built a company with countless JOBS, and YOU ignorant ass, HOW can scoff that? You NEED to get your priorities straight. I’ll bet you are under 25 too…