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On Friday, 14 December 2012, 22 school children and one adult in Henan province, China were knifed by a lunatic in an elementary school. You can ban all the objects you want and insane people will still find a way to wreak mayhem. Arm one school teacher and you might stop them in their tracks. It has worked for the Israelis for years.
(It is currently thought that the reason the shooter at the Clackamas Town Center mall in Oregon only killed two people before taking his own life was that he was confronted by an Oregon CHL holder with a handgun.)
Banning guns is not solving the problem, it’s treating the symptom (and it’s the wrong symptom to focus on.)
I know we can make giant camps where people can get “help” either way something gets fixed
no a mass desire to own and use lethal weapons is a symptom to focus on.
ok , mass now means one , get a clue, there are over 2 million concealed carry permits in florida alone and since the concealed carry program started here less than 20 of those have committed crimes that required taking away those permits. how about we stick to punishing the guilty and not everybody.
What you left out from the Chinese knife story of your post was that everyone of his victims lived and recovered and that most of the stabbings were not fatal.
He was literally disarmed from his small kitchen knife by young students tossing school desks at the perpetrator; if he had had an assault weapon the outcome may have been much different.
I live in a very gun restrictive area of northern Europe – we have had exactly 17 deaths by guns since the year 2000, most were hunting accidents. Russia, a nation with 11 time zones, has had less than 20 deaths since 2000. Japan, a nation with the most restrictive gun laws has less than 2 murders a year.
I’m a Marine vet, I’ve lived here 20 yrs, I’m no Liberal anti-gun nutter, I live “free from fear” – we don’t even have locks on our doors here. Every nation is struggling with the mentally ill going untreated on our streets – it is only the US that is dealing with these people perpetrating a massacre every two weeks. Your problem is not the mentally ill – your problem is the free reign of so many guns.
All I saw in your post was someone coming up with excuses for the massacre bloodbath of 20 young children. You’re a tool.
well people keep saying that if you took the gun out of the picture, why not take the nutjob out instead.
Let’s think about this.
Would you rather…
A) Encounter a madman with a knife in school, or
B) Encounter a madman with a gun in school, or
C) Encounter a madman with a gun in school, then be trapped in a gun fight because the staff have guns too?
Realistically a man with a knife is only a threat to me if he can run faster than I can, or if that’s not a possibility, a fairly large stick, chair or smaller kid are decent defenses.
The worst school massacre in the USA was done without the use of firearms.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
“the worst” school massacre? are we placing levels on school massacres now?
haven’t you been watching the news? it’s a giant competition apparently to see who can kill the most and get the most publicity.
yes, it’s generally considered worse when 100 die rather than 1. remember math? dumbass
And the worst massacre in the US was the genocide of the Native Americans. BTW guns were used in much of that.
Estimates tell us that the number is between 10 million to 20 million. Some even account for as many as 114 million as a direct result of US actions. Noting that Nazi Holocaust estimates are between 6 and 11 million; thereby making the Nazi Holocaust the 2nd largest mass murder of a class of people in history.
(google it)
and the nazis didn’t have to use guns for the majority of their killing, background checks on stoves!! call your congressman
What the fuck is wrong with pro gun nuts.
On the BBC the other day I saw someone saying that rather than restricting guns they should be more prevalent. He recons that the the only places that you get mass shootings are places with few guns like schools, malls, churches etc so there should be more guns there. I mean what the fuck!
The level of total disregard for logic, refusal to rationalise figures and “gun accidents happen to other families and not to me” attitudes like this boggle the mind.
By the way Buzzgunner and engine would you like to show us some figures for all the combat knife massacres please.
This post is relevant and can be taken further. The UK doesn’t have guns, for 100 points which country has more fatal breakins, the UK or US?
what I don’t understand is how your opinion seems so steadfast. if even a single person had a weapon at this even other then the perp, it would have ended much differently.
How is it logical to only give killing instruments to the mentally ill or criminals?
um, no the point is not to give guns to anyone. Why the hell would I advocate giving guns to the mentaly ill or criminals?
Yes, let’s make sure no one has guns.
Except for the government and cops, who make the rules, are clearly beyond corruption, and have a clear interest in sharing their power.
And also the criminals and crazy people, who surely are, and will always be, impressed by the law.
Then everyone left over will be safe.
Yes, let’s keep our guns and have a war with the government and cops.
BTW, you are aware that they have tanks, fighter jets, drones, cannons and access to every weapon of magnitude and caliber, right up to satellite precision nuclear warheads.
I’m a Marine vet and unless you’ve served in the military for any length of time… the first thing you learn real fucking quick is: you go ahead and mount your little cute “well armed militia” – because you have as much chance of winning as an ice-cube in hell!
The only thing I see is a bunch of wanna-be-superheros pretending their protecting the wife, kids and Sony whilst at the same time ignoring that yours is the only nation hosting a bi-weekly massacre of the innocents.
your logic is a bit off, mentally ill and criminals will always find ways to harm those around them.
I think that’s where your disconnect is, are you thinking that if we (the law abiding public) didn’t have guns, that they wouldn’t?
cause that ain’t the way the world works son
funny, overwhelmingly thats the way it works over here. almost nobody has a gun.
You guys think that because 1 person in the country might be killed by a nut jobb then all people should have missiles to shoot nut jobs and that nothing bad will happen as a result of that.
@Nelson (there doesn’t seem to be a reply button on your post)
I don’t think that since one person might be killed by a nutjob everyone should have missiles. I think that since I might be killed by a nutjob, I should have a missile.
My comment is at -3 and yours is at +2, so far. They say the same thing about criminals having guns. Except for the part about the government and cops. I guess I could have just summed that up under the collective “crazy people who shouldn’t have guns.”
Also where does it end? If someone had a handgun in Norway he would have been shot by the guy with the machine gun, that doesn’t mean we should be giving the cops rail guns and shop security M16s. The arms race thing doesn’t work guys.
Nelson,
Tell me, when was the last time you heard of a “mass shooting” at a Gun Show or Shooting Competition?
As for “Knife Massacres”:
www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/shocking-rise-in-scottish-knife-crime.15457796
If you are going to ask the question of which Country has more Fatal Break-ins, you are going to have to break out who got killed, the ones who’s place got broken into or the ones doing the breaking in. If it’s the ones doing the Breaking-In, The US wins that one going away. As a matter of fact, except for the Areas like Washington DC, New York City and Chicago where it’s almost impossible to Legally get a gun (never seems to slow down the Criminal Element), Break-Ins of an Occupied Dwelling are dropping to record lows. (the Crooks aren’t Stupid, they don’t WANT to get killed.) If you mean the Occupants of the Place being broken into getting killed, the UK wins THAT one going away. You have a type of Crime there that is practically unknown in the US, the Home Invasion. When it does happen in the US, it makes National News, that’s how rare it is. In the UK, it might not even make the Local Papers, that’s how Common it is there…
And you don’t see the prevalence of guns as a major contributing factor to that?
When people break into a house they almost always want to steal shit, usually for drugs. They don’t want to hurt or kill people. If they are pretty sure they are going to walk into a house witha gun nut shouting hands off my VCR and shooting at them they will carry a gun and………. more people will die.
Lol put it this way; Home invasion is an American phrase and offence that was created by Americans to describe the crime that only seems to happen in America
what a fucked up place.
we’re just the only ones reporting it and coming up with catchy names for it. and it happens everywhere , just watched a video of one in china a few days ago ,knives and clubs. the FACT is that since he killed himself then you want to punish someone……well screw you!
no really dude, America is out of proportion.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
” America is out of proportion”…? are you saying we supersize or we just have ALOT more people than most countries and way more freedom, don’t be jealous.
I’ll choose UK over US on this one, especially when NY announced a historic day on November 29th this year when noone was murdered,raped or mugged for a day or 2 for the first in decades
i was in the UK back in the late 80’s, guns were severly restricted then and I was still able to see criminals with them. as far as choosing the UK then let’s hope you don’t experience being glassed.
totally irrelevant. If you saw guns in the UK you were in a rare minority. Once more
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
The UK is way way better for violent crime, murder and gun crime. Even wiki will tell you that
I notice that they had to include scotland with england to bring that rate down,
Yeah, they usually do that when they talk about the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Then again, I live in northern Europe and like many of our neighboring countries we have some of the most restrictive gun laws around.
We also have some of the lowest crime rates. In the 20 yrs I’ve been here – we don’t even have locks on our doors. We live in a very multi-ethnic and cultural neighborhood. Gated communities don’t even exist here.
I don’t know what you’re talking about how common crime and break-ins are in the UK/London – I’ve kept a flat there for the last 15 years, I work for a well know large media company out of London. You’re living in some fantasy world with your wild little stories but with my first-hand knowledge, crime exists everywhere, but it’s nowhere as you describe it here in the UK. That’s pure BS to win over that the whole world become another gun-nation of bi-weekly massacres. You’re a git.
Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms in England. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
and proportionately that pales to the states. Your point is?
“What the fuck is wrong with pro gun nuts.”
Nuts are nuts, pro-gun advocates are very sensible people however.
“On the BBC the other day I saw someone saying that rather than restricting guns they should be more prevalent. He recons that the the only places that you get mass shootings are places with few guns like schools, malls, churches etc so there should be more guns there. I mean what the fuck!”
Right. Are you trying to discredit something? School shootings are common cause there are no guns allowed on school campuses. Colorado and Connecticut both have very strict gun laws for instance. Order the list linked below by year and tell me, since concealed carry laws were enacted, how often mass murders happened in gun control states and how often they happened in states with relaxed gun control. Go on, I’ll wait:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Americas
“The level of total disregard for logic, refusal to rationalise figures and “gun accidents happen to other families and not to me” attitudes like this boggle the mind.”
Here is a cool site:
www.gunfacts.info/
And yes, it is backed up by exhaustive research. This would refer to figures you’re asking about. Gun accidents are not very common actually. In all actuality criminal homicide, at least in America, is usually between people with an existing criminal record (that includes victim and shooter). Involuntary manslaughter (a “gun accident”) is very uncommon and is due to negligence; something that kills people in far more ways than even guns used in criminal homicide cases do. As a matter of fact, of all the accidental deaths caused in America firearms count for 0.6% of them. Statistically speaking, since you like statistics (me too) there are roughly 30 firearms to every pool in America (30:1) and in 2007 there were 999 drowning victims and 137 firearm related accidental deaths. Given how common firearms are compared to pools but how much more drowning kills people it’s fair to say that the risk of dying in a pool compared to an accidental firearm death is over 200 to 1.
What figures did you want to “rationalise [sic]”?
“This post is relevant and can be taken further. The UK doesn’t have guns, for 100 points which country has more fatal breakins, the UK or US?”
Oh, is that it? I shall rise to your challenge sir. Answer:
I don’t know, can’t find that stat, probably America.
Damn, I wanted to say U.K. cause they have gun control. I mean it’s a 1:1 comparison between these two nations, right?
Ah well, you win that one. Just be glad the U.K. homicide rate is lower than ours. At least it didn’t double since you banned firearms! lolamirite! I’m not? You mean your homicide rate has doubled since you started banning firearms ownership in 1968? Surely the world has just gotten worse. What about the U.S.? Has it’s homicide rate doubled in the same period…? No… it went down, not by much, and it’s still higher than the U.K., but it has gone down.
cool, Guns are a great idea then and everyone should have them. by the way where exactly should it end? can I have a flamethrower?
yes , you can have a flamethrower. it takes proper licensing but it can be done, we already have laws preventing people from driving their tanks to work so how about you quit trying to respond like a retard and keep the conversation as intelligent as you can manage.
no serious question. What in your oppinion is the limit of personal killing power each person should be able to own and why?
Can I rig my house to explode if a robber comes in for example?
Stop avoiding the totally fucking obvious question – gun nut.
“no serious question”..”Can I rig my house to explode if a robber comes in for example?”…. did u really think this is a serious question? sounds more like you’re an idiot, but I’ll REPEAT, we already have laws regulating these things( guns and booby traps)so how about you get an education before you start making comments like you never made it out of the 3rd grade GUN GRABBER. and what obvious question ? when will the pussies that are scared of guns and don’t want anyone to have one ever going to grow the fuck up? probably never . the fact is what needed to be controlled was a mentally ill idiot . friend of yours i assume
I knew trying to sensibly appeal to a troll/uneducated, immature, limey chucklefuck was a bad idea.
Yes, you can have a flamethrower. And actually where I live there are no regulations. Go for it dude. Anyone could go get one here if they want. Guess what? THEY DON’T FUCKING DO IT. Guess what else? I can legally buy grenades! Hell, I have the capacity to take any one of my guns that I want, go to a crowded area and start shooting like mad. But I don’t. Neither do the millions of other gun owners in America.
WAIT, WHAT IS THAT? It’s your precious tea sucking, Royal Queen twat licking, backward-ass fuck of a country being slapped in face:
–United Kingdump: 1.2/6.2 = 0.19
–The United damn States of ‘Murica: 4.2/88.8 = 0.04
Legally owned firearms compared to intentional homicides you fucking prick. You know what the higher number means you slimey cunt? Means if you want to go buy homicide rates and how many guns are in the country and draw some imaginary fucking line between the two then you best prepare you anus. It seems like God’s gift to Earth (read: Americans) is a more responsible and peaceful society than you chaps. It means if you own a gun you are five times less likely than to cause harm upon your fellow American than any Britfag out there. You violent pieces of shit, why can’t you just live in a civilized manner like us? Best thing your country ever did was lose a war here over 200 years ago.
You hear that noise? It’s freedom, motherfucker. And by God is it fucking awesome.
yeah, what he said.
I like that image.
Now, put up the addendum that since then, for the first time in their history, English police are forced to carry firearms.
sorry? come again? thats not true.
the internet says it is though?
Could you please elaboreate? I mean what the hell are you refering to?
“for the first time in their history, English police are forced to carry firearms.”
It’s just I live in the UK (you realise thats not just England yea?) and we have had armed police RESPONSE units for a very very long time. We have NO standard police patrols that carry guns, this has not changed recently as far as I’m aware. If so please post a ref.
Then you should know you have nearly 7,000 police officers with guns: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Firearms_Officer
and here’s a counter to your “oh banning guns would end all our problems” argument:
www.google.com/search?q=knife+attacks+in+uk
Yes, tiki, as has been stated before, the British Police does have an Armed Response Unit and it’s been there for a very, very long time. Noone denied that. Still, the normal beat cop does not carry a firearm.
Cumbria shootings happened after this. Guess this whole post is bullshit then.
not a school shooting and in no way does it make this topic irrelevant.
When I’m wrong I’m wrong and I admit it. I stand corrected.
Why does USA’s lack of functioning mental health care take a back seat to gun regulation whenever there’s a public shooting?
True it is also relevant. But it should also be relevant even if people in need of mental health care aren’t killing people with guns. Mental health care is relevant all the time in so many ways, these incidents sit along with the daily gun deaths as relevant to gun prevalence too hence the debate.
you should stop typing on your computer and actually do something about it
this is the discussion that I would like to be having. why are the mentally ill locked up with criminals and treated as second rate humans?
Yea this is so fucked up all over the place. If they are not putting mentally ill people in with the general prison population and not treating them they are “treating” them in secure hospitals for “as long as is needed”.
As I said we have armed response units. officers on the beat or doing anything day to day have no guns. If a specific threat (almost always a gun or bomb) comes up armed officers go out to that specific thing. So thats 7000 officers over the whole 65,000,000 person country. As it happens on the few occasions that police do shoot someone over here it is a big thing and frankly they have abused it. How much gun pain happens over there guys? I live in Glasgow, the worst for knife crime and it’s nothing compared to the states. Nothing
i have a cousin that was chased through the streets of glasgow by a group of thugs with chains and bats, as a matter of fact glasgow sucks so bad the u.s. military tells people stationed in England they aren’t allowed to go there. remember brits are the only ones to use the word glass as a verb.
interesting, Having lived here for like 15 years I have never heard of any stories like that. (for that read so fucking what)
You know Glasgow isn’t in England right??
The stats speak for themsleves, Glasgow is quite safe compared to big american cities.
actually glasgow’s homicide rate for 2011 was on par with cities chicago and flint. www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/shocking-rise-in-scottish-knife-crime.15457796 www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotland-in-the-grip-of-murder-mayhem-as-homicide-1099307
You have picked the 1 year in recent times when there was a huge jump (over 30%) in the murder rate in just this city. It has also been tackled very well.
noknivesbetterlives.com/?p=1607
Further to that Glasgow knife crime is almost entirely gang related, random people don’t get stabbed very much. Not that gang members being stabbed isn’t a problem, of course it is because it is bad when ANYONE gets killed.
Also even if Glasgow (by far the worst) was like Flint, where the hell is LA on that scale.
i picked 2011? one would assume that is the latest stats since 2012 isn’t over yet. most of it being gang related ? well then I could say the majority of violent crime here is black on black so it shouldn’t count. you can try to compare locations all day but truth is its the freedom that is associated with a place that gives you or doesn’t that makes a huge difference. there are over 300,000,000 in the US and some estimates suggest there are 88 guns per every 100 people , now considering those numbers its painfully clear that the majority are used legally and not in the commission of crimes.
Everyone seems to be for or against the banning of guns, but I’ve never seen anyone with the same opinion as me on the matter.
As I see it, very restrictive gun laws like in Australia function excellently. People say “then only criminals have guns”, well, most criminals couldn’t find a gun if they wanted one, and a mentally unstable kid wanting to go on a school rampage absolutely couldn’t. Seriously I would have no clue where to even start to try to get a gun. I don’t know anyone that owns one, and I’ve actually NEVER seen a functioning firearm held by anyone other than a police officer in this country. The gun control here works really well, and I have zero fear of ever having to deal with someone armed with a gun.
BUT, somewhere like the U.S, trying to ban guns just seems insane to me. There are SO many guns in circulation, that if all firearms were completely banned you could still trivially obtain one from almost anywhere. You could spend billions of dollars trying to remove guns from the country, and every small-time thug would still have one.
Basically if you can ensure that your country is gun-free, ban the crap out of them and everyone will be safer, but if there are guns everywhere, make sure that your law-abiding citizens can protect themselves.
Absolutely it’s a different question depending on where your country is with gun ownership and crime at the moment. But surely the basic idea must be to try and minimise people having death machines in case thay have to kill someone. Surely if there are guns everywhere you should try to change that as well as keeping people as safe as you can. I’m still not getting where the arms race analogue doesn’t fit.
That’s not the “real world”… you say you live in Australia and things are different there – same here, I’m in Denmark. I came into this very restrictive gun ownership country screaming and dragging my feet. “Happiness is a warm arsenal” but somehow over 20 years of living in an environment of freedom from fear – I’ve evolved. I’m a Marine vet that grew up around guns.
Americans need to deal with this problem, this last massacre was too much, maybe that reflects because I have two young sons myself. Kids shouldn’t go out this way, especially American kids.
The innocents will continue being sacrificed until we grown ups come to our senses and tackle this problem head-on – because this “oh well, that’s just the way it is” attitude is a lose-lose situation. We Americans are better than that. Why is it that we’re able to conquer every single problem and hardship in our country but when it comes to crime and the run-away gun problem then we suddenly throw our arms up and whimper like sheep.
Fuck that attitude. I’m an American and I refuse to roll-over and be defeated. We always win and we must determine ourselves that we must find a solution to the bloodbath slaughter every two weeks in our country because the status quo is not any way to live.
Maybe fear really is the key problem. From what I’ve been reading in several posts in this thread alone, in the US, at any given time, there could be an HIV positive drug addict effortlessly breaking into your house, armed with a gun and out to rape your wife and kids. Does that really happen a lot? This sounds like the USA are a cesspool with crime rates through the roof. I can’t imagine that the USA really are that kind of shithole.
There are certain areas here in Germany, especially in bigger cities, where I wouldn’t go alone at night. I can imagine Denmark has those areas, too. But 99% of the time I feel safe, especially in my home. The police responds relatively quick and to even get into my home an intruder would have to be really determined, because doors and windows here are made to keep people out. In fact, it is virtually impossible to force the outer doors open. What do I need a gun for?
@bob
Exactly, thats the problem.
It is a FACT that if you own a firearm it is more likely to harm you or someone you love than to protect you from ANY physical harm. But everyone thinks that they are responsible enough and hence loads of gun accidents and deaths. Is that not pretty obvious? I think I could handle explosives and despite living in the city I would like to set a small mine on my porch in case of criminals but it would be insane for me to be alowed to do that. Wouldn’t it?
you’re insane, where are you pulling these ideas from, other than your fat ass?
after just a quick google how about 15,500 accidental shooting injuries.
www.thesurvivorsclub.org/extreme/surviving-accidents/accidental-shooting
but i’m sure you could look further.
Look, why are you so determined that you should be allowed to own a handgun?
Also have you noticed how high the USA homicide rate is? esp for how rich a country it is and how big a western English speaking power it is. Why is that do you think? does gun ownership have anything to do with that?
I’m so sorry, I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.
gun ownership has nothing to do with it, yes.
that’s exactly what I’m saying, are you saying that it does have something to do with it?
Apr 2010 to Mar 2011 there were 11,227 recorded offences involving firearms , this number is for England a country with 1/5 our population
Why are you so determined to see that guns are taken away from us?
Keep in mind that firearms were how we were freed from the domination and enslavement of the Brittish Empire. Keep in mind that when the Brittish were fighting off the Germans it was the US that helped supply the Brittish (as well as numerous nations).
Oh yes, I remember all those US citizens donating their private handguns to the Royal Army.
Here is a nice article about the firearms sent over to Brittain:
jeffersonian.name/g1959/G1259.pdf
Here is a nice article about the firearms sent over to Brittain:
jeffersonian.name/g1959/G1259.pdf
Here is a nice article about the firearms sent over to Brittain:
jeffersonian.name/g1959/G1259.pdf
um…. what exactly are you saying (3 times) with this 53 year old pdf?
really what is this meant to tell us?
looks like it was meant as a response to goldfinger…but this anon had a case of “can’t find the reply button” as well as “did I click submit? let’s hit it a few more times to be sure.”
You didn’t hurt my feelings at all.
Yes, I am saying that gun ownership and the attitudes that surround it contribute to the very high homicide rate in the USA.
then we’re on opposite sides of the arguement. I do not believe that gun ownership and the attitudes that surround it have anything to do with publicity seeking mentally ill people doing sick things.
The only reason most of them do what they do is for notoriety, which is why I strongly support not reporting on the shooter’s name until the case (if there even is one) is settled in a court of law.
@Nelson,
The part that you don’t understand is, all the laws and regulations of gun control will only effect on the people that fellow the laws.
So tomorrow, a law pass and no one can have guns. So what, we already have laws that ban murdering innocent children. It didn’t stop this tragic. What make you think the criminal that break the law saying he/she can’t murder will fellow the law telling him/her can’t have a gun?
Just like the Gun Free Zone act passed in 90’s didn’t prevent this even. Banning gun is not the answer.
I see what you are saying and by no means do I think that simply passing a law tomorrow saying nobody can have guns would solve things.
But in this example perhaps it would have stopped things. In this country it would have been way way way harder for someone like that to get a gun. In so many of these situations it is easy to get a gun, so so often they are legally held arms that are easy to get hold of just like in this case.
Over the past two years in Glasgow there has been a very direct programme trying to get knives out of the hands of kids in gangs, This ranges from tackling availability to attitude and severe punishment for carrying a blade. The result is that more and more people that would carry do not because of social and legal pressure and it has been working well.
I’m sorry if this too sounds like an easy fix that I assume would work for the states, I don’t mean it to be. It is just so disheartening to hear so many people react with “well we need more guns then” when this topic comes up. Did nobody see Casualties of war?
Most guns used in crimes actually come initially from legal sources. Limit legal guns, you restrict the amount that can get to criminals.
so punish the innocent to get to the guilty, which church you work for?
I find it interesting that way more kids (and adults) are killed every year from misuse of an automobile than firearms yet no one pushes to ban them.
Moreover…an automobile is a dangerous item. Often misuse and abuse of an automobile results in the deaths of innocent motorists. We teach children to safely handle and respect the power of an automobile yet we tall children to run from a firearm and avoid it at all costs. If we taught children to respect a firearm thru proper teaching of how to handle a firearm there may be less misuse of them.
Only handing out guns to people who can prove that they are properly trained in the handling of guns could be a solution. Handing them out like free candy and hoping people will treat them like something else than awesomely deadly toys isn’t.
What exactly are the basic requirements for owning handgunds in the US?
Also, I don’t get why people talk about “misuse” of guns. As far as I can see, that guy used his gun for the exact purpose it was made for. Killing people with a gun is not a misuse of the gun, it’s the only thing it was ever conceived for. Unlike a car, which is a means of transportation. So unless you ride your gun to work every morning, stop babbling about “misuse”.
Meh, too late to edit.
Yes, there are more peacful uses for guns like skeet shooting but those still involve firing your gun. And I’m not sure that guns are (like spears) widely viewed as a piece of sports equipment.
NRA: ‘Ban elementary schools’
www.speld.nl/2012/12/06/nra-%E2%80%98ban-elementary-schools%E2%80%99/
Debate on the desirability of schools reignited by Connecticut tragedy.
The shooting in Newtown, Connecticut past Friday has prompted new debate about the desirability of elementary schools in public life. The National Rifle Association (NRA) is proposing a complete ban on elementary and secondary schools in order to prevent ‘such horrible tragedies from occurring ever again’.
28 people died during the shooting, 20 of whom were children. ‘It is clear that had there not been an elementary school in Newtown this tragedy would not have occurred,’ says Wayne LaPierre, head of the NRA. ‘Places where groups of children come together on a regular basis are inherently vulnerable, and we should ban them wherever possible.’
Once the law banning elementary school is in place the NRA aims to question the desirability of other crowded places including universities, movie theaters and the city of Columbine, Colorado. LaPierre: ‘Our main priority is protecting those who are most vulnerable: our children.’
Former Vice-president Dick Cheney is not in favor of the proposals put forth by the NRA. According to Cheney, a ban would not solve the problem : ‘The problem is not schools themselves, but the security of the schools. If we would simply arm all teachers and pupils with semi-automatic guns at all times, crazed madmen wouldn’t stand a chance.”
Sounds like a solution.
Sounds like an Onion article.
I was going to read this thread, but then it turned out to be full of retards, so I just didn’t.
Embedding doesn’t work anymore so just a link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MEzCtyRWP8
Call me a cold son of a bitch, but this is just a small blip in the daily death race here in the US, blown way the fuck up by the breathless gotta scoop media. “If it bleeds, it leads.” So 26 people died at that school. Out of how many thousands died that day on the road, falling, Od’ing, and yes, other homicides? Yes I own guns. Grew up around them, used them in the military, and teaching my kids how to use them. Am I worried about ‘accidents’ with the guns? No. My kids are much more likely to be hurt or killed crossing the street on their way to school or the park. Oldest one has been hit twice riding his bike to school. But I will not call for a ban on cars, or cell phones, or for more laws about ‘distracted driving’ because they are already on the books. Until Humans are no longer human, they will do crap to each other no matter what laws are made to stop them.
What this debate comes down to:
Pro guns: “I want to carry around a gun because it makes me feel cool.”
Against guns: “I want to limit the way guns make killing lots of people/suiciding easy.”
That’s it and that’s all, you can all go sit down now.
how about I’m a delivery driver in sometimes not so nice areas and carry for my protection,you’re an idiot
So you really wanna go for your gun when somebody already points his gun at you? Smooth. At least CSU will know what happened when they find you with one hand in your jacket and a bullet in your chest.
obviously you haven’t had any training ,but the key is to be alert before the gun is in your face. I’ve had to pull my gun 3 times to stop people from attacking me while delivering, luckily I didn’t have to shoot them. the fact that I was armed and ready was enough to change their minds.
Well… When you compare the number of gun crimes in the US to that of other countries. you have to agree that they are doing something wrong. I think its a combination of to many guns and insufficient mental health treatments.
Here are 2 suggestions to improvement of US gun regulations.
You have to be authorized to own a gun. That involves taking a gun safety course and being deemed responsible. (not mentally Ill)
You have to be a member of a shooting range or shooting club to own a gun. (These institutions usually promote gun safety and responsibility. And they can provide a early warning if they deem someone unresponsible.
Sounds very much like the system we have here in Germany.
Also: So now it’s mental illness? I thought it was brutal video games. No, wait: Heavy Metal. Or was it…um…er…
Im norwegian, it’s the system we have here aswell. Not foolproof, but it stops a lot of people getting easy guns.
how about a national database for all these people diagnosed with mental disorders so law enforcement can keep them from getting guns. quit bothering those of us that are legal and sane.
yes and then we can round up all the peple that fit neatly into the “not sane” camp and put them in institutions. Dirty crazy people
sounds like a plan! retard ,we don’t have to round them up,but it would be nice to check the info before they kill, or is that not the point.
I’m ok with this.
There doesn’t seem to be a good answer:
Ban all guns – Criminals will still be armed and I can’t defend myself. Also, if they can take away the right to bear arms, what rights will they take away next?
Assault weapon bad (again) – Just as ineffective as the last time. Most shootings are committed with handguns not assault weapons. And remember – the assault weapon ban didn’t stop Columbine.
More gun control: Yeah, just ask the good folks of Chicago how that’s working. They have some of the toughest laws in the country and there are still gang wars on every street corner.
I agree that something needs to be done but what can we do? What is the right answer?
Hows about we get rid of gangs?
houston.cbslocal.com/2012/10/19/police-12-year-old-girl-shoots-home-intruder-while-hiding-in-closet/ news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/11/04/15/31/terrifying-home-invasion-caught-on-camera www.liveleak.com/view?i=748_1339595875http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=71b_1334833680 when it takes me more than 30 seconds to come up with these then we can talk
how come no one is talking about reforming the health care laws so that people with mental problems can be tracked? there is no data base for law enforcement to check to see if someone has a mental illness until after the fact. make it where psychiatrists and doctors have a nationwide database to enter these people into so proper checks can be done.
And what kind of checks do you think that should be? In what way do you want the police to check up on mentally ill people? And why exactly is that so much smarter than imposing stricter control on private gun ownership, which you seem to think of as bullshit (please correct me if I’m wrong)?
if you bothered to read the post you would answer your own question dipshit,and its smarter because it’s the crazy people doing it , why do you only want to punish the innocent?
Oooh, profanity. Smooth.
1. You didn’t answer my first two questions.
2. You are claiming that most or all of the people who commit this kind of crime have a diagnosed mental illness or at least a mental illness that could be diagnosed if tested. I’d really like to see a valid source on that.
3. I only want to punish the innocent? Where did you get that idea?
like i said READ the post , if doctors and psychiatrists were entering these people into a national database then the police would have something to check against. as it stands now most states ask the question on a form if they have mental illness or are receiving treatment , but what’s to stop crazy from lying on the form.both the latest school shooting and the colorado shooting were done by people with mental problems. imposing stricter gun laws only restricts those who are already following the law, that’s how you are trying to punish the innocent , I have to jump through more hoops to own the guns I’m already trained and licensed to carry, screw you.
Anyone who thinks banning guns will prevent this kind of thing in the future is delusional. Knives, home made explosives, even sharpened chunks of metal or broken glass….. if someone is bent on inuring a group of people, they will find some sort of tool to make it happen. Arming the general populace is, realisticly, the only way to ensure safety.
I know if I was going to break into a house / rob a bank / go on a killing spree at a school… I’d go for the one where nobody is suposed to have a weapon over the one where everyone has to have one.
As for the argument that you only own a gun to “feel cool”… with an average police responce time of 45 minutes, which do you think would be a better option for your wife, daughter, girlfriend, sister, mother who’s in her own home and an intruder with AIDS is downstairs and will likely rape her…. a cell phone to dial 911, or a .45 handgun on her bedside table?
How about you keep your .45 but you can’t have semi-automatic assault rifles? Also lets not have that thing laying around on “her bedside table.”
Banning guns wont stop it all – granted. Need to do something about the crazies too – granted. But some regulation will make it a whole lot harder for the crazies’ families to buy an army grade weapon from wallmart and leave it around for confused and mixed up kids to get hold of. Also lets do something about that paranoia too. From the early reports that’s the sort of shit this guys mom was in to.
you mean the paranoia that causes people to use terms like “assault rifle”
Point taken. Please excuse my poor terminology. But no, the paranoia I was really referring to was the wife, daughter, girlfriend sister mother cowering from the aids ridden rapist intruding on their home thing. Maybe we should just arm women with “semi-automatic rifles”?
got to ask just dont understand it im afraid
how would giving everyone a gun to prevent shootings sort the situation? that would be the same as our pm (UK) telling everyone to carry a knife to prevent knife crime?
this comparrison has not gotten far with anyone here so far. I would still like a flamethrower for my own protection though.
Are supersoaker waterguns Illegal in Glascow yet? No? Get one, fill with rubbing alcohol, add lighter, there you go.
Great, I’ll go do that and wander about with it and when they arrest me I’ll say they are attacking my freedom and rights.
You are right. Too flashy. And if California is already banning supersoakers, what chance do you have of finding one on the open market in Scotland? But: if you want to be a bit more covert, hit up your garden supply for a 3-4 liter pump sprayer. From what I remember visiting my uncle Gordon there in Glascow having the best rose bushes was a pretty fierce competition. No one would look twice at you lugging one around till you broke out an Aim’n’flame and fwoosh. Or a good squeezable sport bottle. Now mind you, I personally would not use these,flammable liquids at close range are just too likely to get you as well as your target. Just trying to be helpful, since you have stated several times you want a flamethrower.
a 200 pound man with a knife can usually overpower a 110 pound woman with a knife , but not when she pulls out a 45.
People are pushing that more laws could have prevented the school shooting. I saw this list for the crimes that the shooter committed:
1. Using Brother’s ID. (1)
2. PUTTING FALSE INFO on a 4473 to try and purchase a firearm(1)
3. Felony domestic assault (4)
4. Murder of his mother (1)
5 Stealing her firearms (4)
6. Unlawful possession of a handgun (3)
7. Unlawful possession of an “Assault Weapon” (1)
8. Grand theft auto (1)
9. Possession of firearm within 1000 ft of a school without a CCW (4)
10 Possession of a firearm within a school without a CCW (3)
11. Discharging a firearm within an occupied building (200)
12 Battery (26)
13 First degree capital murder (26)
14 Attempted first degree felony murder (170)
15 Use of a firearm in the commission of a felony (250+)
16 Aggravated Trespassing (1)
I am sure I have left a few out but I think it is safe to say he committed at least 600 felonies the last week of his life.
Out of all the laws, not one stopped him from doing what he intended to do. Restricting or outlawing firearms will not stop a criminal from committing the crimes they intend to commit. If not firearms it will be knives, cars, planes, bombs, poison….
so how come massacres (whatever the weapon) happen so often in the states?
The US events are simply more highly publicized. Check the mass killings in the Philippines and Malaysia. In mass murders per square mile, they have the US beat cold.
the Philippines and Malaysia are pretty shitty comparisons for the US. You are not going to try and defend the US crime rate because it’s worse in the DRC are you?
These things do happen way more in the US than comprable western nations (all of which are less well off than the states)
So the question stands
BALLS IN THE MOUTH
Whats to think about? I’m unashamed to say I own firearms.
FRENCH TOAST FEET
And for the record: 6. Add in the bows, 17 firearms in this house.
I’m gone to convey my little brother, that he should also go to see this webpage on regular basis to get updated from hottest reports.