This is terribly flawed. If this is the best illustration popular Christianity can produce, then they are claiming that their all-loving, all-powerful God is not actually all-powerful. Such simplistic theology cannot stand up to logic. Something must be missing if there is any truth in Christianity. I certainly understand why so many thinking people would reject their arguments if this is the best they can produce.
The relationship between God and Man cannot be, as depicted here, that of Protector and Pet. The only way one can answer the question of “why do bad things happen to good people” is to take seriously the idea that the relationship is actually, literally, Parent and Child. A loving parent must knowingly allow their child to experience pain and opposition, because the parent can see that such experience is necessary for proper development. If you take the popular idea that God is merely raising us to rest on clouds for eternity, then such experience is completely unnecessary, and possibly even cruel. If we are merely here to be raised like sheep, then God would be a very bad shepherd. But if there is more to eternity and God wants us to mature for the exact same reasons we, as parents, wish our own children to mature, then pain can then be seen to have a purpose, and we can begin to understand how God can actually be all-loving and all-powerful.
“…God wants us to mature for the exact same reasons we, as parents, wish our own children to mature, then pain can then be seen to have a purpose…”
Bzzzt. Causality cannot be used to justify the actions of the one who invented causality.
Imagine you create a video game. This is the closest thing to being a god. In the game, causality is your bitch. You can make the game so that pressing a button gives you wings, pressing another button builds a bridge. Talking to a character increases your intelligence. Talking to another character makes you old or young or wise or stupid or anything else you can possibly want. You have absolute control of what actions lead to what consequences.
Now image you create a game where, in order to save the world (and win the game), the player has to torture and kill a dozen perfectly innocent babies.
If you see it from the point of view of the player (who is at the mercy of the word’s causality), then torturing and killing the babies is justified. After all, you’re saving THE WHOLE WORLD. Most likely, if you didn’t kill the babies, they’d die anyway when the villain destroys everything, so the action is morally justified.
But if you see it from the point of view of the designer, you beg the question: Why torture and kill the babies? Why can’t the world be saved merely by caressing them or singing to them or talking to them? For the designer, there is no logical, moral, or otherwise necessity to have a particular cause being the sole possibility for causing a particular outcome. When you are the one who decides what causes lead to what effects, you cannot justify your actions by claiming “it’s the best/only way to do it” because it was you who decided what is the best/only way to do anything to begin with.
Good point. Then can we just question the dogma that God invented causality? Might there be laws (of cause and effect) that God might be subject to? Or is that heretical? If it is heretical, ought it to be?
If God invented logic, should he then demand that we ignore it? I find that generally in life, if things don’t make sense, re-establishing definitions is a good place to start.
guest (#)
13 years ago
Despite what the Korean characters might indicate, it is highly accurate portrayal of Christianity. At least in the sense that Jesus (aka God) is a devout masochist who could simply make the rocks vanish but chooses to let them hit him so he can relish in the pain like he did while bleeding to death for three days on the cross.
There is that ‘rock’ that could come right out of the blue and I would be killed by it. IOW, I know that no god or the God (should the Being exist) will shield me from my death.
Now imagine that the rocks are science, history, morality and knowledge about sex.
This is terribly flawed. If this is the best illustration popular Christianity can produce, then they are claiming that their all-loving, all-powerful God is not actually all-powerful. Such simplistic theology cannot stand up to logic. Something must be missing if there is any truth in Christianity. I certainly understand why so many thinking people would reject their arguments if this is the best they can produce.
The relationship between God and Man cannot be, as depicted here, that of Protector and Pet. The only way one can answer the question of “why do bad things happen to good people” is to take seriously the idea that the relationship is actually, literally, Parent and Child. A loving parent must knowingly allow their child to experience pain and opposition, because the parent can see that such experience is necessary for proper development. If you take the popular idea that God is merely raising us to rest on clouds for eternity, then such experience is completely unnecessary, and possibly even cruel. If we are merely here to be raised like sheep, then God would be a very bad shepherd. But if there is more to eternity and God wants us to mature for the exact same reasons we, as parents, wish our own children to mature, then pain can then be seen to have a purpose, and we can begin to understand how God can actually be all-loving and all-powerful.
“…God wants us to mature for the exact same reasons we, as parents, wish our own children to mature, then pain can then be seen to have a purpose…”
Bzzzt. Causality cannot be used to justify the actions of the one who invented causality.
Imagine you create a video game. This is the closest thing to being a god. In the game, causality is your bitch. You can make the game so that pressing a button gives you wings, pressing another button builds a bridge. Talking to a character increases your intelligence. Talking to another character makes you old or young or wise or stupid or anything else you can possibly want. You have absolute control of what actions lead to what consequences.
Now image you create a game where, in order to save the world (and win the game), the player has to torture and kill a dozen perfectly innocent babies.
If you see it from the point of view of the player (who is at the mercy of the word’s causality), then torturing and killing the babies is justified. After all, you’re saving THE WHOLE WORLD. Most likely, if you didn’t kill the babies, they’d die anyway when the villain destroys everything, so the action is morally justified.
But if you see it from the point of view of the designer, you beg the question: Why torture and kill the babies? Why can’t the world be saved merely by caressing them or singing to them or talking to them? For the designer, there is no logical, moral, or otherwise necessity to have a particular cause being the sole possibility for causing a particular outcome. When you are the one who decides what causes lead to what effects, you cannot justify your actions by claiming “it’s the best/only way to do it” because it was you who decided what is the best/only way to do anything to begin with.
Good point. Then can we just question the dogma that God invented causality? Might there be laws (of cause and effect) that God might be subject to? Or is that heretical? If it is heretical, ought it to be?
If God invented logic, should he then demand that we ignore it? I find that generally in life, if things don’t make sense, re-establishing definitions is a good place to start.
Despite what the Korean characters might indicate, it is highly accurate portrayal of Christianity. At least in the sense that Jesus (aka God) is a devout masochist who could simply make the rocks vanish but chooses to let them hit him so he can relish in the pain like he did while bleeding to death for three days on the cross.
For the earthly manifestation of an omnipotent divine presence he kinda sucks at blocking rocks.
Sooo…what happened to “omnipotent?
Jesus christ, I could post a picture of a guy named Jesus (Hey-Zeus) and everyone would still bitch up a storm
Jesus used to post here. True story.
I know, we had a night of passionate romance
check me out, i’m atheisms!
There is that ‘rock’ that could come right out of the blue and I would be killed by it. IOW, I know that no god or the God (should the Being exist) will shield me from my death.
Pathetic propaganda. Believers will find it deep and meaningful, everyone else sees it as evidence believers are imbeciles.