Big Unions fund Big Government. The union slices off 2% of the workers’ pay and sluices it to the Democrat Party, which uses it to grow gov’t, which also grows unions, which thereby grows the number of 2% contributions, which thereby grows the Democrat Party, which thereby grows gov’t.
Repeat until bankruptcy. Or bailout.
You’re trying to blame the recession/massive redistribution of wealth/bailouts on working class unions instead of the massive fraud on wall street and Bush era tax cuts?
THAT’S FUCKING RETARDED.
Do you really want to break unions? Sure, firefighters don’t have the right to pick better equipment when it comes available. Nurses can handle a dozen patients per shift. Anybody can teach physics on minimum wage.
Done in one.
Do you ever leave the house?
I swear nobody who comments here leaves their homes and gets all their BS from CNN.
Inflated unionized wages are exactly what’s throttled growth. Your working class has been eviscerated by unions demanding more money to the point that the evil corporate boogie men sent the jobs out of country entirely.
Here’s a fun fact from the real world: during this most recent recessions when the whole world went to hell the average American corporately traded company increased its profits. It did this because when trying to operate before unions used their leverage (which is why they exist) to ‘demand’ more money and increased benefits etc. I’m sorry but if you have a high school diploma and two hands and that’s it you are not worth more than 10 bucks an hour. But people got 40 – 100$ an hour for some jobs for decades. So the leverage they had evaporated and they got kicked out on their fat asses to deal with the mortgages they took but could’t afford. Or is that also some mysterious old white guy’s fault? Straight white guy. Can’t forget that. And probably Christian too right free thinkers?
Its not really a republican vs. democrat issue though with the democratic agenda to increase government size and spending you’d only see more and more unions and public service worker unions are the worst. We have them in Canada and most people who belong to them keep it quiet. Everyone hates them. And why not? I know a teacher works very hard but I also know its not an 80K a year job. 40 maybe. 80? Fuck you. You’d se more and more of that if Obama weren’t already all but kicked the fuck out.
Firefighters? They make 3X what a soldier in Afghanistan makes. They should get a huge pay cut. Nurses? Nurses are the biggest whiners and without their union to enforce the regulations that prevent hiring foreign nurses they’d all see a huge pay cut too and a well deserved one…or they could go try finding another job.
Him stating its a leftist problem isn’t totally right but you stating the usual bullshit you were fed about the dreaded “Bush era tax cuts” is a fucking joke.
Anybody CAN teach physics on minimum wage. They just wouldn’t want to. But who the fuck cares what they want? You give them more money because they’ll cry about it otherwise? Oh I know its because they’re so smart and that’s their leverage…for now. Until everyone finds a way to cut them out of the loop for abusing the leverage for so long.
Unions were a good idea for about a week and then they turned poisonous. Some very simple people ended up getting a lot of power. Its been downhill since. And now every company who has had to deal with fucking retard union asshats that meets Mr Chinese outsource business man says ‘wait…you mean I can pay less, get the same work, and not have to deal with or even look at these fat pigs? Sign me up!’ and poof. No more job. No more inflated pay to pay off the mortgage. House goes. Cars go. But its the evil corporations fault? No it is not. Its the dumbshit line worker who thought he/she was something special’s fault.
I hope the nutjob looney left on this site were even able to follow and comprehend what I just typed there but probably not.
Downvote for bonus retard points, guys. You never disappoint.
The average firefighter income was 44,260.
www.allthingspolitical.org/careers/firefighter_earnings.htm
Average military pay is a lot more complicated. But to give you an example, my brother is serving in Afghanistan. He pulls in about 35 a year as a base salary.
www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/2011MilitaryPayTable1-4.pdf
However, he also gets hazardous duty pay and separation pay. That comes up to an extra 10,000 a year. That alone makes him equal to an average firefighter’s pay.
Also, while deployed he doesn’t have to pay taxes.
Additionally, his housing and utilities are free. It’s about 1200 a month for equivalent housing where my brother is stationed. That’s 14,400 he doesn’t have to spend that a firefighter does, not counting utilities.
His health care is 100% free. Firefighters often have to pay premiums on a group plan in the U.S.
So firefighters earning 3X what a soldier makes is a bit of an exaggeration.
Now keep in mind I think soldiers should be paid more. But I think it’s vulgar and ignorant to say firefighters need a pay cut when corporate pay rates are at an all time high.
Maggie, I’m curious about something. You’re opinion is that firefighters, teachers, and nurses should make less.
In the U.S., the top 20% of the country owns 80% of the wealth of the country. That leaves 15% for the VAST MAJORITY of the country, which is comprised of mostly wage and salary workers.
How in you right mind do you think it ruined the economy for the lowest earners in the country to have a slightly better life?
Seriously, how did they ruin the economy by only take a larger slice of only 15% of the pie?
You are seriously deranged.
Are you retarded?
Is the US in Afghanistan?
You just wrote all that and it’s totally wrong. Go ahead and Google Canada, dickhead. Its the big ass land mass above your fucked up head. Pay grades along with quite a few other things differ. Then go reread what I wrote. Fuck you’re dumb.
Now whine some more and post some more bullshit. Or fuckoff and quit embarrassing yourself over and over.
“Is the US in Afghanistan?”
What’s your point with this sentence?
As for the rest:
SO what?
You’re conflating Canadian and U.S. issues in one post. You choose to complain about Obama in one breath and Unions in Canada the next.
You are aware Obama isn’t president of Canada?
I chose to focus on issues pertaining to the U.S. since this was mostly a discussion of the current Union issues here in the U.S.
Reread the post. Rread it and try and understand it.
Fuck you really are dumb. Even dumber than I thought.
Hey right wing nutjob – my sister is a vice principal and she makes $39G and yes, she works summers. The reason jobs went overseas wasn’t the unions, it was an offshore labor supply that would work for $2 a day with no safety and no environmental regs.
The $10/hour you think hard working people are worth would still have been too much. Despite cheap overseas labor and those “damn unions” demanding a livable wage for American workers the unemployment rate was still 4.4% before the recession.
As for the “Democratic agenda” being about increasing government size and spending – ever look at the national debt over the last 100 years? Take a look: 3.bp.blogspot.com/_JD5-n5Cs94k/TNR1W7Fwb5I/AAAAAAAAF5M/OV0CreT5gg4/s640/Natl_Debt_Chart.jpg
That’s right – government spending goes DOWN under a Democratic Administration and UP under Republicans. Yes, debt went up during the first years of the Obama administration – but that was because he was keeping the economy from collapsing after 8 years of Republican mismanagement and deregulation. The recession was caused by finance corporations playing fast and loose with mortgage money, not by Firefighters and nurses getting overpaid.
As for “Obama already all but kicked the fuck out” you’re pretty clueless there as well -according to Gallup his approval is 48% in his third year in office – Ronald Regan was 35% in the same period. “W” left office at 25%.
Bonus retard points? you earned yourself a bunch with this little piece of misinformation.
The cost of labor over seas is a factor, but consider that the cost of overseas labor has gone up significantly over the last decade, in part thanks to the demand for it, and you have to figure that with a weak dollar, the exchange rate isn’t in favor of foreign labor, but companies still send jobs away.
Labor like anything else is based on supply and demand. Of course companies are going to make things as cheap as possible and sell them for as much as possible. That’s business 101. American labor has to adjust, or they will be replaced. It’s not about the unions, it’s supply and demand.
With a weak dollar, now would be the ideal time for America to go back to manufacturing economy instead of the service economy we now have. We have the resources, and the reduced exchange rate makes it more attractive for other countries to export from here. The problem is the cost of labor.
If the labor unions can’t work with companies so that both can prosper, then they will eventually eliminate themselves by pricing themselves out of the job market. It’s that simple.
As far as the government jobs that are unionized, the question if different, it’s raise taxes or cut jobs. Living in NJ, which has the highest property taxes in the country, and a massive debt left over from previous administrations (plural since I’d say the problem started at least 5 governors back and each successor added to it). Right now I think we have a governor who is working to reduce the cost of government, put a cap on property tax increases, and get us out of the red. He’s getting massive resistance on all fronts, but especially the government and teachers unions.
While his solution is far from perfect, it’s the best we’ve got and a solid step in the right direction. The problem is that government workers won’t accept changes and the teachers don’t want to accept accountability.
He’s probably going to be a single term governor, but hopefully the next one will pick up the torch and run with it.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Your use of the term “Democrat party” gives you away as a Republican/Tea Bagger.
And it was Bush most recently that started the trouble with the economy. Unless you trace it back to the original source, Reagan.
The biggest shame I think in the fighting in the USA between members of the working class is that people see others who have it better than them and instead of saying “I aspire to obtain that” they say “They should not have it better than me, drag them down to my level”. Its embarrassing that people believe that this is a Democrat vs Republican issue. The working class should spend less time concerned with how well their neighbor is doing but instead be concerned with doing better themselves. Finding scapegoats for your failures by blaming Republicans, Democrats, unions, The tea party etc only keeps you wallowing in your current state, when you all do this there are dire consequences for the nation.
The terrible irony is some people can’t stand for another middle class person to thrive, but they’ll take to the streets so the richest 1% can pay less taxes than the middle class.
If you read magnus-buttfoorson’s post above, it seems the people who want to drag others down are the conservative right, by insisting that capitalism only work for the big corporations and denying the working man the right to bargain for a fair price for their work.
Ya thats exactly what I said…
Oh and you posted above that you like you fuck your own sister and she likes it. <— since we're just sort of glancing things over and then making shit up about it.
Shall I point out AGAIN how often you lie compulsively?
Point it out?
You have some creepy weak little control issues.
You don’t point out, mandate, or instruct shit on here any more than in your sad real life.
You who are so 100% full of shit saying anyone else isn’t being truthful is more nonsense. You’re not even fucking sane.
Point out whatever you want. You’re just talking to yourself.
AGAIN you’re really fucking stupid.
Well, I was going to post one of your older posts where you lied, but you provided a new lie lower on the page.
Additionally, I just asked a question. That is not a mandate, order, or instruction. Your comprehension issues are funny to me.
Really, you’re the one with control issues. I ask a simple question and you FREAK THE FUCK OUT and act like I’m giving you an order.
You need to get laid, dude. It might take the edge off.
You’re pathetic.
Your weird control issues and your constant rambling bullshit and projection is collectively too annoying.
According to you reality is wrong and you are right.
Good job. You’re not stupid at all…
“You’re pathetic.
Your weird control issues and your constant rambling bullshit and projection is collectively too annoying.
According to you reality is wrong and you are right.
Good job. You’re not stupid at all…”
You just described yourself. Good job, sociopath.
While you’re trying so hard to brand me a liar, you’re lying lower on the page. Beautiful.
Ah, the poor U.S. tax payer. He already has the second lowest tax rate in the industrialized world, with a marginalized tax rate of 27%, but it’s killing him (to not be first, that is).
Without unions, the employees don’t get shit for pay or benefits.
This must be from the 1970’s or something, because it’s irrelevant today.
Next time, point out what you post is old.
rainman97361 is just a poor troll.
Check his post history. He’s the one that posted the forged facebook and voter registration pages for Jared Loughner.
He’s a sad, sick little troll who has no problem exploiting a tragedy the promote his political views.
As opposed to you and people who disagree with him who aren’t trolls?
YOU DO THE EXACT SAME THING BUT 100X AS MUCH AND YOU ACTUALLY LIE. EXCLUSIVELY.
Just shut the fuck up.
You’re showing signs of stress, Mags.
Normally you chase your tail for a few posts and then start making up stuff before you leave in a huff. Now your abandoning ship early. Stressful week tearing down your stamina?
Now you’re just trying to say I don’t understand your post to avoid the conversion. Weak. Normally you have more staying power.
Really, mags, I do the same thing as him?
He posted a forged webpages. I have never posted a single image on this site.
He exploits tragedy to gain a few political points. I have never done such a thing.
Go ahead, try to prove me wrong. I dare you to post something I have done that’s equivalent to what this troll has done.
Again, you have to lie to call me a liar.
Ya you never order anything from anyone…
Way to contradict yourself again, nutcase.
He posted a page he found. He didn’t make it you retard.
He wasn’t exploiting anything. He posted his interests in the same way every left wing asshat like you does on here and elsewhere.
He posts exaggerations and treats the truth to suit him.
SAME
AS
YOU,
RETARD.
I’d ask if you understand but why? You’re not able to. You poor, stupid fucker.
Eduction time, Mags.
If you make a statement, such as claiming I am a liar, it’s not unwarranted to ask you to prove what you say.
Freaking out and calling me a control freak is just a cowardly way to avoid standing up for what you say.
It’s a smokescreen to make the argument about something else.
“Ya you never order anything from anyone…”
I never said I didn’t.
“Way to contradict yourself again, nutcase.”
Way yo avoid your own statements, coward.
“He posted a page he found. He didn’t make it you retard.”
I didn’t say he did. I said he posted a forgery. Again you lie about what I say.
“He wasn’t exploiting anything. He posted his interests in the same way every left wing asshat like you does on here and elsewhere.”
The Arizona shooting was a terrible tragedy. He posted forged pages to associate Obama with and Democrats with the shooter.
Therefore he was exploiting the tragedy to smear people. I have never done such a thing.
“He posts exaggerations and treats the truth to suit him.”
Well at least you admit he is a liar. Good job.
“SAME
AS
YOU,
RETARD.”
Citation needed. Post one lie I have made.
But you’ll just freak out again and call me a control freak for asking you to back up your statements.
I await your cowardice and excuses.
“I’d ask if you understand but why? You’re not able to. You poor, stupid fucker.”
Irrelevant ad hominem.
Don’t get me wrong. Unions can be really awful and overreaching. I won’t disagree with that.
But this Wisconsin and Ohio trouble isn’t just about cutting back on union power. It’ll push back any organizing public office workers, and if the government can cut back on their unions, I’m no lawyer, but I’d say that’d be pretty good reasoning that private sector unions could be lessened.
And without some sort of organization, some way to fight for their benefits and good pay, workers won’t get shit.
If there’s one union I see the most evidence against is that of the road workers in my state of Pennsylvania. You ALWAYS see like 3-5 standing around doing nothing when you drive by, or two people staring at one person doing work, ect. The reason for this is because they want to stretch out each job as long as they can, which makes road work cost a LOT more than it should. I propose two solutions for this individual circumstance.
1) Give bonuses to the supervisors/managers on each job scaling with how quickly the job gets done (it must be inspected by an independent person from the job for quality so they don’t just rush through it half assed).
2) Pay workers a fixed amount based on the estimated time the job should take, allowing for schedule setbacks that are not the fault of the workers (supplies arrive late, materials are of poor quality, weather, ect.) so they want to finish each job as quickly as possible so they can start a new one with a new set of pay. This would also need inspection by an individual who’s pay isn’t related to the jobs.
I missed part of my description. The reason for them wanting to stretch out each job is that if all the jobs get done there’s no more work. Which I can understand their reasoning for stretching them out were I in their place, but as someone who is tired of how shitty our roads are and tired of the wasted tax money, it needs to be made so they can’t do that.
Most road work is done by contract – a company bids on a certain project. The price is by the job, not by the hour – so there’s no benefit in “stretching the job out” in fact, most contracts have penalties if the job isn’t completed on time.
The reason you see men “standing around” is that it isn’t assembly line work, sometimes you need more men, sometimes less. But you have to have enough men on hand for the times you need them or the whole job gets shut down for lack of manpower. So the job actually goes faster if you have a few extra men at times. It may not be pretty but it gets the job done.
As for your “shitty roads” is most likely either the state specifying inferior materials to save money or someone isn’t checking the work properly.
Are your road worker actual state employees? I know NJ contracts for work based on a bid system. Although with all the potholes you’d think they can’t find any contractors.
This is ridiculous. No one is forced to become a union member anymore. There are few, if any, “closed shops”. Organization is a basic right in the US and it’ll stay that way. The corporations are clearly doing just fine, 80 of the 100 top US corps. paid $0 in taxes from 2001-2008. Many even got money back and ended w/ a net plus after taxes. They’re trying to pay workers as little as possible and the workers are trying to get paid as much as possible. The two sides hash it out and end up somewhere between. Unions facilitate that process, otherwise you’d have to negotiate w/ every single one of your workers all the time. It’s not really such a horrible imposition to either side.
Canada may have a different type of union organizing, I don’t know.
We do.
Our teachers union owns (or did they sell them off?) the Toronto Maple Leafs.
A teachers union had enough money to buy a fucking NHL team. It’s asset worth as of 2009: $96.4 billion. That’s the Ontario Teachers Union. Harmless and helpful my ass. 😛
Actually look up “right to work” about half of the states public employees are forced to unionize. Secondly, lets see some sources because you gravely misused some snippet.
What snippet?
Oh, you mean the numbers? They’ve been on nearly every cable news channel and every blog or paper that covers politics. So I’ll just say any and all.
Also where are you getting your numbers because I googled and bing’d “right to work” and did not find your numbers.
money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/news/economy/corporate_taxes/
www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/how-the-average-american-paid-more-federal-taxes-than-ge-and-citibank
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102324.html
thinkprogress.org/2011/02/26/main-street-tax-cheats/
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/12/national/main4342535.shtml
www.reuters.com/article/2008/08/12/us-usa-taxes-corporations-idUSN1249465620080812
www.csmonitor.com/2004/0419/p16s03-cogn.html
I think you should have the point now.
jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/a/right_to_work.htm
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law
Ok many of the companies you mention are either partially or wholly owned by foreign subsidiaries. Several others mentioned in your gross over statement of the stats pay taxes through other avenues (like S corps). as an interesting aside all yours stories are nearly 3 years old.
As for my numbers, the ones I didn’t use btw, 22 of the 50 states (“about half”) are right to work states. They are the state where by law you may not be forced to join a union to hold a particular job. Those states are Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming. Use the sources you provided pretty obvious on both.
Also forgot to mention that the 5 states without teachers unions are the worst in the nation for getting an education, so the “teachers unions are stifling innovation” argument is fucking invalid.
I worked for a union once. I didn’t see it doing anything but adding costs to the company. If you sign up for OT on the weekend and a less senior person works and you don’t, you get the pay as if you worked that day. So if 20 people were more senior, all 20 would have to be paid. How does that affect the cost of the goods produced?
Also, it was set up so you had to start working from a temp agency, then after X weeks you go permanent if you do a good job. Problem with that is I saw people from other countries that couldn’t speak English (can be hazardous in the factory is something bad is happening) and could not do the job properly. One dude spent almost all his time just sweeping the floor since he couldn’t work the machines. And sure enough, he was able to get on permanently. How does this affect the cost of goods? So much for union labor being better!
I can see some use for a union, but when you see stuff like this it really turns you off on them.
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