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this is retarded. let’s say there is this bitchin camaro, fully loaded and sitting on the showroom floor. it works perfectly, just like it was designed to…
but then some faggot vandals came along, steal it, fuck it all up, and trash it during a joyride.
so i guess it is Chevy’s fault the car isn’t working properly now, and for that matter, Chevrolet doesn’t even exist.
Yeah but Nate it would be Chevy’s fault if car manufacturers were assumed to be omnipotent and if, in fact, their omnipotents was the main reason you bought a car.
Your God-Devil analogy only works if vandal faggot is a robot designed by the omniscent Chevrolet monolithic entity for the express purpose of fucking up shit.
never said the devil was the vandal.
let’s put it this way. your mom bakes you a birthday cake. someone comes along and takes a big steamy shit right on the cake, after mommy said, “no shitting on this cake”.
since the cake is ruined, then mother obviously wanted you to eat shit cake, and she enjoys watching you wretch and hurl over each bite?
my point is that just because something is broke does not mean it wasn’t designed well. and it also doesn’t mean the designer likes that it’s broke, and it doesn’t mean that the designer is sadistically enjoying watching someone eat a shit filled cake.
smotherman’s quote is intriuging on it’s face, but it’s ultimately retarded and misleading.
Human action and free will only explains a fraction of the suffering in the world. Hundred of thousands of people die in natural disasters, are born with birth defects and suffer from horrible accidents. Why would a benevolent god allow any of that?
Many religions teach that there’s a reason for it and that there’s an endpoint to it. We throw around terms like the Apocalypse and Armageddon, without actually knowing what they scripturally refer to and what God’s feelings are on the matter.
I’ll be waiting here for someone to go wiki it and then claim to be an expert.
Nate got it right.
Chevy created, “faggot vandals” f’ed ish up, Chevy is doing a recall as we speak.
Suffering is unpleasant. It seems wrong. We instinctively try to avoid/reduce/eliminate any of it, and are often unsuccessful. Can’t comment for anyone else, but experiencing suffering (in various forms) in my own life has provided me with wisdom/understanding that I might not otherwise have, and which might help in the future.
That’s because you’re a pamper little princess leaving in a prosperous western country who has never even seen real suffering. Come back and comment when you’ve had a bot fly lay eggs in your eye.
I suspect that neither of us has much idea about the particulars of the other’s life, so perhaps we could dispense with ad hominem stuff. You never used to rant, reboot. WTH?
I do live in a prosperous Western country (Canada) but I’m a guy, so princess doesn’t apply. Do I consider myself fortunate to have been born in such wealth – especially relative to places in the world where bot flies lay eggs in eyes? Yes, I most certainly do . . . but the circumstances of my birth have no impact on the accuracy or inaccuracy of my thoughts. ‘Specially when speaking about my own life. Do I have far-less-than-Zen moments when I rage against life, the universe, God? You bet I do. And do I recognize the irony that if I hadn’t been born in such opulence I probably wouldn’t even have time to think such thoughts? Yup.
Not unless you define Chevy as a loving, beneficent and all powerful, all knowing god.
There is an incredible amount of needless suffering throughout natural history, because the mechanism of evolution by natural selection demands it. It is this problem of evil that is proof against such a god. Darwin rightly described the fossil record as a devil’s chaplain.
What if a Camero came off the assemply line, and insted of lasting years, it only lasted months, and ran like shit for that short time? Or, it came off the assembly line, lasted years, but it’s owner had to look after it 24 hours a day because it didn’t run properly?
Many atheism quotes display an illogical anger at a God in whom the author doesn’t believe. Truly, I don’t care what people believe: I just want them to be consistent.
Organized religion that truly values people has shown itself to be (at the very least) problematic for the human race, though that reveals more about the fallibility of human beings than it does about a God which may or may not exist.
Designed =/= planned. This statement is logically unsound.
How else are we supposed to be kept in line?
Pain is the governing force that keeps us from looking inside the over when its on to see the pretty colours and dying off as a species.
oven?
And the salesmen demand that to drive this Chevy Camero, you must either destroy, or convert, all other makes into Chevyness.
Meanwhile, while that is going there’s infighting; like Chevy Camero vs Chevy Imapla, or Chevy malibu, or even Chevy Camero SS
Careful, or you will never get into Cheaven.
And some of them demand that we destroy all non-Chevy vehicles. After that we need to erase any trace of non-Chevy science/history that contradicts Chevy Dogma.
We were designed to be inherently defective?
I see it moar like we are stained.
Ooh, this sounds interesting. Can you flesh it out a bit?
Stained? I have no idea what you mean by that. Original sin? Free will? What sort of god do you suppose designed us and why?
and the problem with pain is?
if everything were easy everybody would do it.
Or an incompetent one. Look at how badly designed we are. Eyes that go bad, joints that get stiff, and other things that don’t. Although if we’re made in his image, that explains a lot.