Keeping the memory alive, of real feminist women who were fighting for equal rights, and not trying to be men.
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Source: Glamour magazine
Interesting. Can’t say I’ve ever looked into it, but I would’ve thought either image would’ve endorsed the ‘more like men’ viewpoint, by adopting a masculine trope. Obviously you have to read between the lines.
Would you say Biedel is more feminine than Rosie or less?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:We_Can_Do_It!.jpg
@...HoChunk:
Well would you say that hard work is something only men can do. Because that’s what Rosie stood for – hard work. Not femininity or masculinity.
What I meant by, ‘trying to be men’, is the fact that most people these days think of butch lesbians when they hear the term feminist. Because it’s true.
Now you got stupid bitches like Rosie O’Donnnell. Beth Ditto. Or Oprah who hangs out with the first Lady because she’s black. And says on TV things like: If a man hits you once, he will hit you again.
I mean what the fuck. Sitting on their fat asses all day, rich as fuck, and they call themselves feminists?
The only women who still have actual reasons to be feminists, are poor women in small countries in Africa you have never heard of. The rest are just lazy women with too much time on their hands. For the most part anyway.
If you want my pay, pickup my shovel and match my work, PERIOD. (ok pull out the chair and run my network as well, and you’re welcomed to my pay scale, really).
The revisionist equalization of work is what gets me…And then the attitudes, is Rosie more or less feminine? What does feminine mean anymore when all you see on TV and Film are Tramps?
The Britney Spears Generation doesn’t have a clue and that’s ok…Arguments and polarization are much better for commercial and sales than rational thought and ethics…
But no, Rosie is not as feminine…She’s rolled up her sleeves and ready to show some spunk.
Always like that image, any image, that shows anyone picking up the slack and kicking ass….
Femininity?! That’s not part of the issue here at all.
Two different Rosie’s being mentioned in this thread makes my heard hurt.
Those of you who said this is about hard work not about femininity: Your right.
And this isn’t the first time its happened. All over the world women have had to take care of the home while any men capable of war went off to it. If the only men you have are children and seniors, the women are going to have to do some work. It wasn’t quite like this during WWII, but enough men were gone that there many jobs to fill. The women then did it regardless of the pay, but because it had to be done (well, some of needing to be done might have been propaganda).
That said, I’ve always loved this image. I want a woman who has that sort of strength without being all muscly and gross looking. Rosie has sex appeal (not O’Donnell)
involving tv & films is bringing everything out of bounds.
@...dieAntagonista:
Lol, I think you have the Obama / Oprah relationship a little backwards. Ophrah is a fucking billionaire, largely due to her own entrepreneurial spirit.
I agree about O’Donnell, never heard of Ditto, but they are not indicative of American society on a whole, just indicators of where the outer limits are of what some will find acceptable.
The feminist thing arose primarily from the women that had to take over all the jobs that the fighting men left. Those men came back and demanded their jobs back, but some of the women said no and then promptly burnt their bras.
no, wait, that sounds wrong…
@...tiki god:
Oprah is a fucking sexist bitch, manipulative, arrogant and does not deserve any attention. Yeah, she is a billionaire, but would she care about the first Lady if Michelle wasn’t black? I DOUBT IT.
Who does she think she is, telling women what men will or will not do. She ain’t a psychologist so she can shut the fuck up.
She is the reason why so many women believe that, when a man cheats on them it’s his fault because he is an asshole, and if a woman cheats on a man, it’s his fault also because obviously he couldn’t please them.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Also, she had a Male-to-Female transgender person on her show once, she said, ‘You’re a boy with a penis, which makes you a boy.’ She was very matter of fact about it. And her audience laughed.
Oprah can go back to the miserable hole she came from, for all I care.
Sounds like somebody’s got the Ancient Greece spirit (concerning the roles and status of women)…
My friend Arkeith HATES Oprah, too (for other reasons); he’s from Chicago and can tell you some more BS that she pulls.
And, Alexis Bledel looks good in this pic.
Oprha is a “product”. Unfortunatly, so is Obama, a very Bright, appealing one, but a product none the less, just another politician >>ducks for Cover<<
These people, may they be white, black, asian or w/e are pedestal pieces for the people…so I don’t rate their accomplishments because I understand they have been picked, groomed and setup for us to be in awe of…
Is this kind of crap www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/10/craig_wood_in_fire_blokes_call/
That pisses me off…
After the Election coverage in the states, I’ve my lot of lying stats and figures…
dieAntagonista said:
“She is the reason why so many women believe that, when a man cheats on them it’s his fault because he is an asshole, and if a woman cheats on a man, it’s his fault also because obviously he couldn’t please them.
Fuck. That. Shit.”
dieAntagonista, stop it !
I’m starting to fall for your mind!
@...gx5000:
@...dieAntagonista:
Oprah is brilliant, in an evil genius sort of way. See, women who are actually happy and living fulfilled lives would quit watching her show. Therefore, she deliberately gives bad advice so that women will continue to be unhappy and continue to watch her show. There’s generally no profit in actually helping people.
Arkeith my mate. Good name.
@...gx5000:
Yeah of course Obama was sold like a product to the masses, but he’s a very badly needed product so it’s fine. It’s not so much who he is, but the fact that the people finally realised what America really needs. It’s what he represents. And I’m convinced he will accomplish more than most people expect. Then again, I’m a naive hippie, but I won’t lose hope until those four years are over.
Yeah well see here’s the thing. Let’s assume the first Lady was white. If a woman as powerful as Oprah were to get together with her, just because she’s white – that would piss me off. So it’s the exact same thing when Oprah supports her just because she’s black. Now obviously I have no proof for this, but let’s just look at the facts. Oprah is from what I’ve seen fairly conservative. Technically, she should have supported McCain, if she was genuine. And even if she’s against McCain, she should have at least supported Hillary. Not because I think either of those were good candidates, but that’s what she should have done if she were honest.
I have no tolerance for people who are in favour of others just because of their skin colour. No matter if black or white, it’s the same bullshit.
Yeah wow, I have never heard about that Craig-Wood person. She can go to hell also.
And don’t you dare fall for my mind. Who is going to argue with me over religion.
@...reboot:
Hey I never once claimed she isn’t brilliant. My arguments and immature insults are still valid.
Fuck it’s such a relief to curse in English. Goddamn I wish I lived in an English speaking country.
i can see this going to Dr.Phil just a matter of time.
@...ColombianMonkey:
We just have to wonder if it’s before or after Godwin’s Law.
seriously fuck godwin & godwin’s law (not offending you)
For my part, I’ve always adored Norman Rockwell’s version:
z.hubpages.com/u/169229_f496.jpg
Certainly not as powerful an image, but…well, you be the judge.
is that a nazi book or can? she have her foot on?
@...ColombianMonkey: It is definitely a can: Mein Kampf, the desert topping.
*dessert
Okay everyone is too hung up on the feminist revolution and on America, that they are missing the point: Alexis Bledel is a complete little hotty!
I don’t know a lot about Oprah, but isn’t she from Chicago? The Obamas are also from Chicago. There is prolly more than a race connection. If I remember correctly, Obama was the first candidate she ever endorsed and for that reason she did no political shows during the campaign. I guess what I mean is her relationship w/ the Obamas is prolly much more complicated than just we’re the same race/color.
@...nyokki:
Yeah but the Obamas were rich. Or at least richer than Oprah. Oprah was poor as fuck. I don’t think they are besties now because they were both from Chicago. And like I said, a conservative pseudo feminist like her should have been for McCain or Hillary at the least. Even without that, she’s still a lying cunt who can go to hell.
i have not read any of these responses, but it matters not.
MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT FUCKING EQUALS.
GODDAM SHUT THE FUCK UP (you see how i spelt it out instead of the usual STFU? that’s because i’m vry srius)
feminism has ruined america.
@...natedog: Conservative bible bumpers and greedy corrupt CEO’s have ruined America.
@...ColombianMonkey:
then…@...ColombianMonkey:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW
i think Alexis is perfect for this role.
DieA – I just don’t agree with your modern definition of feminism and who needs it.
The mentality that feminists are man hating butch dykes is total backlash because the American culture isn’t ready to really balance the genders out and they won’t be until the we start taking better care of our children (the boys specifically). As long as we are actively removing empathy from one group of people, there will be a group of people that will be able to comfortably dominate others.
Just because American women have it better than women in 3rd world countries does not mean that feminism is not necessary. Gender equality is an important and that’s what feminism is about. A true feminist doesn’t just care about women’s rights but about human rights in relation to gender.
I have no issues with Oprah. I neither like her or dislike her. In one area I give her props is that she gets people reading… her book club has brought so many people into reading who weren’t doing so previously.
How is it possible I agree with bothoutofocus and dieAntagonista? I guess I totally agree with what outofocus said, but I’m not going to go around calling myself a feminist, because I know a lot of people will automatically label me as a Rosie O’Donnel-type and annoying as fuck.
But at the same time I’ve been interested in real feminist stuff lately, but I’m reluctant to even *try* to find a book or a website, because I honestly don’t want to sit and read about how men suck and they’ve done everything wrong. I just want to be respectful, and I want other people to be respectful.
And Oprah fucking confuses me. Because she endorses this book by Eckhart Tolle which is totally blowing my mind in the same way that Alan Watts or Ken Wilber (and btw where do I find a woman that does this stuff and isn’t all weird?) and she randomly does some other stuff that seems awesome. Maybe it’s just to keep people qthinking she’s awesome, but like reboot said.. she still has to mess people up so they keep watching her show.q
@...vutterfly: What’s the deal with the book by Eckhart Tolle (whoever that is?). I don’t have TV so I am unaware of all these people. I can’t watch the Oprah show because she dumbs down for her viewers. I understand why she does that as much as Dr. Phil does but they should demand more from their viewers, not let the viewers demand less.
I have never thought of Rosie O’donnel and her like to be man hating feminists. Are there particular situations that support this label?
Just about everyone I knew calls themselves a feminist, are part of feminist communities and are intelligent, caring people… not man hating at all (a few are lesbians but appreciate and respect men).
Women who man-hate are not feminists… they are sexist and are hypocrites. Unless we’re going to find a new word for feminism, people need to help others reassociate positively by using it openly. And people who know what the word means should stop perpetuating bullshit stereotypes.
I’ve never come across a “man hater” type feminist book. I’m guessing they are out there? I have a book called “Who stole feminism” that talks about women undermining their own cause. Most of my other books are gender study books, that are about gender roles, the lack of equality and what we all do to cause that. Maybe I shop at the wrong book stores? :p
@...outofocus:
best way I have ever heard it defined. I can tell you’ve really educated yourself on this issue and have given me a few things to think about. I really like the way you think about this issue.
@...dieAntagonista: I’ve never really watched Oprah, so I can’t say what I think about her personally or as Talk Show Host. I think anyone that is under the public glare and microscope is going to say and do things that are shocking to others. I’m just grateful that the whole world wasn’t staring at me and judging me when I had my less-than-stellar moments or my more vociferous ideas.
What does Obama stand for that is so diametrically opposed to Oprah’s views?
Beautiful. Perfect. Alexis She does Rosie very well. 😀
@...outofocus: I also like your definition of feminism. Sadly, however DieA’s experience with “feminists” is similar to mine.
Though I do not believe in the Butch-dyke stereotype, I find too many “feminist” arguments are not actually based on equality but rather self empowerment, all else be damned…
I also find it telling that the vast majority of the cool not-girls who have shared what I would consider fair views of feminism, also do not claim to be feminists themselves…
@...nyokki: A while back, when Hilary was competing with Obama for the Democratic nomination, I heard an discussion between Whoopi Goldberg, Oprah and one other feminist activist lady whose name escapes me now.
During the interview, the feminist kept talking about womens rights, and all that jazz, and her argument, ultimately, was that women should vote for Hilary because to not do so would be a betrayal of their gender, or some other such nonsense.
Now I cannot remeber what Oprahs opinoins were about it, though in the interview it seemed she was very careful to appear nonpartisan, however the one thing that impressed me was Whoopis response. She flat out stated what I was thinking.
The presidential election should never have been about women supporting women, or womens rights alone. It should be about who is the best for *everyone*. And for the country as a whole. The idea that any woman who decided not to vote for Hilary was betraying all American women is a flat out lie.
*That* is what equality is about. The unfortunate thing though, is that I have run into precious few women, let alone feminists who really understand that. Of course I do not consort with these so called “girls” on a regular basis, (they carry coodies and other weird contagions, and are icky to boot), so my opinion may not mean much, but there it is… 🙂
@...Phyreblade: I haven’t met very many people, period, who understand that concept.
I’ve always liked Whoopie Goldberg.
What you say regarding women focusing only on women’s rights makes sense to me. I have seen that but I guess I ignore it as most of the time as the points are generally not invalid but only applicable to a small portion of the problem.
@...outofocus: I don’t really watch TV either, but it seems like everyone around me does. =/ I’m borrowing the Eckhart Tolle book from my mom-in-law… it’s about, like, philosophical/getting rid of your ego type stuff. You should look it up if you like that kind of thing. =P
I agree totally with what you are saying about feminists, and that real feminists aren’t man-haters. But, I think the media has most people convinced that feminist=man-hater.
For instance I look up “feminist” on youtube. The second result is “Joe Rogan vs Feminist.” The info on the video says “Some feminist bitch criticises Joe’s stand up act about his impressions of dumb girls and then tries to convince him how she’s so much smarter and different than other women. Joe tells this bitch how it be! Straight up! Layin’ down the law! Joe Rogan is a mawfuckin’ animal!”
The comments say things like “damn right joe, you da man bro. PUT DAT BITCH IN HER PLACE lol,” “i think someone should of slapped a bitch,” and “i looked at her and i was like EWW.”
Here’s the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXUd7VxuSA
I’m just saying, if I want to spread the message of, you know, peace and equality and stuff… I feel like if I call myself a feminist, most people already have an opinion of what they think of that word, and I’m afraid the majority have the opinion that “feminist” has a negative connotation. And instead of listening to *vutterfly* (who perhaps they haven’t already judged too badly) they would be listening to *a feminist*… if that makes sense. =P
And no I haven’t actually tried reading many feminist things.. =P I’ll look into that book. I did, however, sign up for Feminist Majority once upon a time and after a while I just didn’t feel right about it… I don’t think they every came out and said “MEN SUCK!!” but I just kinda got that feeling from them… maybe it’s me?
p.s. I just had a talk with my husband… and we decided that as soon as you label yourself a feminist, you’re kind of picking a side. A better term might be socialist.. but even then you are not just advocating equal rights for everyone, you’re also for whatever else socialism entails… Maybe universalism? Still that’s just speciesism. Should animals have equal rights? What about the rights of lifeforms we haven’t even encountered yet?
@...vutterfly: So what you’re saying is that because the word is “feminist” (implying female bias) that it should be changed to something else… never mind the fact the word has a clear meaning as defined in the dictionary.
“Atheist” used to be a word that was meant to be derogatory. It was quite offensive and it has slowly become something that defines a group of people.
The way I see it, as long as our culture has an underlying hate of women, it doesn’t matter what word we use. It makes more sense to me to use the word appropriately and disprove the stereotypes pushed on us by a few people and the media.
Feminist is a very generic term that has multiple meanings, usually subjective. Every time you use the term feminist, you’re required to define it. I don’t like chauvinistic assholes and I don’t like feminist bitches.