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Amen to that!
Nice quote, unfortunately it’s just not true. Besides you can be an atheist and at the same time religious, which is something people like Richard Dawkins claim.
Here’s one that I find much better:
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion. ”
– Steven Weinberg
how can you be athiest and at the same time religious? you’re making less than any sense
Atheism is the absence of belief in God or Deities, or the belief that there is no Gods or Deities. But religion, as I understand it, doesn’t necessarily involve Gods or Deities – Buddhism is a good example of that.
Buddhism is a religion, but you could well be an Atheistic Buddhist. A Buddhist who rejects the notion of Gods and Deities.
It sounds like an oxymoron on face value, but is possible… At least it’s possible by my own understanding of what constitutes a religion and what constitutes Atheism.
A slight issue with your opening statement; “Atheism is….the belief that there is no Gods or Deities”. That’s in total contradiction to your previous statement “Atheism is the absence of belief in God or Deities”.
Your first statement is correct. Atheism is an absence of belief – a rejection of faith. Your second statement – that atheism is a belief that there is no God, is false. You can’t have a belief in not believing, because that is a contradiction in terms.
It’s like saying abstinence is a sex position, off is a television channel or peace is a war strategy. By that logic, as I sold precisely no cocaine or heroin to anybody in my near-21 years of existence on Earth, that makes me a drug dealer. Atheism is not a belief system.
There is no unifying code (besides the rejection of faith in a deity) among atheists – atheists strongly disagree with each other all the time on how to proceed or what their world view is. Some reject God entirely. Most say that atheism is the position by which one states that as there is no evidence to suggest the existence of God, there is no point believing in God based solely on faith until there is proof.
There is nothing sacred to atheism, there are no clergy, no traditions, no associated holidays, no rituals. Not a belief system. A disbelief system, for sure.
hahaha. nice one tiki.
@...dieAntagonista: What? Really? I don’t get how that’s possible… explain further or share a link with me please cause that sounds kind of silly. The quote is good one tho.
“You can be an atheist and at the same time religious”
Explain.
@...dieAntagonista: Yours sounds like a much better quote, but it isn’t true either… 🙂
bad things… crusades ?
@...sylvanish:
@...Namelis1:
From Richard Dawkins’ book ‘The God Delusion’, Chapter 1 A deeply religious non-believer:
‘I hear myself often described as a deeply religious man.’
He basically describes how his respect and admiration for nature, the universe and things we cannot explain, are in a way religious.
‘The cell biologist Ursula Goodenough, in The Sacred Depths of Nature, sounds more religious than Hawking or Einstein. She loves churches, mosques and temples, and numerous passages in her book fairly beg to be taken out of context and used as ammunition for supernatural religion. She goes so far as to call herself a ‘Religious Naturalist’. Yet a careful reading of her book shows that she is really as staunch an atheist as I am.’
He also quotes Einstein:
‘If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.’
‘I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion.’
—
I must say I really liked that part of his book.
@...urjuhh:
The point is not how great the crimes of those were that claim to be part of a religion. But how deceiving it can be, when one claims to have the absolute truth and the right to dictate other people’s lives because of it
@...Phyreblade: Care to elaborate? ^_^
@...dieAntagonista: Ah. Now it makes sense.
Its not religious in the sense – “I go around believing made up nonsense that isn’t based on any concept of reality.”
Its more like feeling awe in the complexity of the world, and having a connection with the universe – I know that sounds like new-age bullshit-wordplay but what can you do.
Damn semantics.
Also, Firefox wants to auto correct “newage” into “sewage” <3 <3 <3 I love you Firefox.
@...Namelis1:
Yeah semantics. And I suppose if you associate the word religious only with organised religion, irrational and vile people and things like that, then it’s obvious you would think something like that.
Firefox’s vocabulary is massive fail, that’s no secret either.
@...dieAntagonista: Do you believe it takes religion for good people to do bad things?
@...Phyreblade:
I see what you mean.
Well the thing is I’m a determinist and I don’t believe in terms of good and evil. Therefore that quote should be absolutely meaningless to me.
But the thing is, even though good people do bad things even without religion, they don’t do it in the name of a god and pretend it’s OK.
As opposed to certain Christians/ Muslims etc. who think that murder is alright under certain circumstances because a book tells them so.
So I’d say the word good and bad, in that quote are figurative really.
There is a big difference between good people who do bad thinks because of irrationality, stupidity or whatever else, and certain religious people who have books which they can use to justify almost any crime you could imagine.
Ah I see. Personally I think that’s a misuse of the word religious. I’d replace it with perhaps spiritual in that context, but both words, and all words like sacred and soul, and god and so on, have over 6 billion different definitions, so, pbbt. whatever. Atheism does often get misunderstood as Nihilism, which leads to much inane bickering. Nihilism tho, is best left to professionals, like rock stars.
Religion implies a system of belief originating from others, as opposed to personal beliefs, which in a healthy human being, should defy limiting labels and grow and change as the human does. But that’s just my belief. Heh
Is it not okay to believe in something that originates from others? The books you read, the people you talk to, and the experiences you have are all forming your character and there’s nothing you can do about it. These are all things that originate from others.
I don’t think many people think atheism and nihilism are the same, but many think that nihilism is an unpreventable consequence of atheism. Which, of course is ridiculous.
old argument is old
People will believe whatever they end up believing as a result of everything they observe and experience in conjuncture with who they are as a result of all previous observations and experiences. The matter of religion is a group of people who all start trying to observe and experience the same things, this can end up with negative consequences, it can end up with positive consequences. As for the people, it can limit their possible field of observation and experience until they have little choice, this is when problems begin. Problems such as inability or a desire not to reason through issues but to stick to points of reference found within their religion. These points of reference can give them strength, or simply mislead them as they ignore any outside evidence that contradicts what they have been told and what they choose to believe.
As for the matter of House, the problems are usually the result of people taking their faith more seriously than their health and as House wants to cure them for his own sense of success – and possibly the knowledge that they are healthy and he did all that he could – this gets in the way and we all know how House feels about obstructions to his job no matter how well reasoned they are.
I should probably point out that a lack of religion doesn’t necessarily mean the person will reason any better than if they had religion. The presence of religious/spiritual/other beliefs depend entirely upon the person’s reactions to them and therein – for House – lies the problem.
I suppose it is faster to catalogue people by their associations than it is to look at the person. True, when dealing with a large number of people associations are necessary to gain any descriptive picture that doesn’t take a for-boding period of time.
However, we are all the same in many respects and those that make us different, that make us stand out are more abstract than are easily expressed in any less time than the name of a religion or philosophy. In truth these are all clubs we associate with but in fact differ from in varying ways. We are all our own church, our own philosophy, but we group together so that we are not alone.
newage is not a fucking word
it’s New Age. spaces. Lrn2usethem.
as for the quote: (know that this is IN GENERAL)
Too much is being read into it. The word “religious” is not being used to mean “in touch with nature” it’s being used to mean people who FOLLOW an ascribed RELIGION. Therefore, used to describe people who base their lives around a set of rules given to them by, pardon the pun, god knows who.
What I took from the quote when I heard it on the show in context was that religious people do not use the same reasoning skills as an non religious person. They make choices based on consequences of their religion and filter choices based on that. For example, a Muslim suicide bomber is making an illogical or irrational choicve based on religious reasoning rather than logical reasoning.
It’s not much different that “emotional” reasoning which basically just skews our mental pro/con scale.
[Deeply] religious people CAN be reasoned with, but only through religious reasoning.
The fact is, religious people don’t have high enough reasoning skills to needed to understand why the rest of us think they’re so fucking stupid. That’s why they fall for that shit in the first place. They’re just going to say stupid shit like “atheism is a religion too” and “shut up satan”.
As annoying as they are though, I take comfort from the fact that religion as a whole is day by day losing it’s grip on humanity. All that’s left are small reactive pockets (which are themselves a sign that religion is on it’s way out).
Heyyyy way to take something mildly interesting and make it immensely boring.
I’m an titfuckerist by trade but was baptized whogivesafuckaboutthishisterist. I also believe in the Cos(by).
meh reason is overrated
@...dieAntagonista:
So it’s OK to do bad things in the name of Scientific research, but stupid to do it for religious reasons? 😀
@...AlecDalek:
I would argue that you are making a very broad, and highly flawed assumption. There is an endless list of absolutely brilliant scientists, physicists, philosophers, etc. who were all devout Christians.
@...mAgnUS BUTTfoorson: Wow, that’s a trade? How would I go about getting an apprenticeship? And hey, what a coinkydink! I too, believe in the Cos(by)!!
@...AlecDalek: That is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Muslims and Christians make up 50% of the worlds population. That is 3,350,000,000 people. THAT IS A CARL FUCKING SAGAN 3 BILLION PEOPLE. 70 percent of the united states is christian. That is 210,000,000 people out of 300,000,000. Can you please come up with an argument that Is actually based in factual evidence?
@...Phyreblade:
No no, it’s never ok. But don’t you think there’s a significant difference, when a person can justify any crime if they wanted? And well, I didn’t say anything about scientific research, I guess for some it would be ok. But to me personally it isn’t. This is a question of general ethics though. We would have to clarify those first, but that is not quite easy (:
@...AlecDalek: Nice, generalising like that shows obviously that you’re superior to every theist on the planet.
To be more specific, it’s not actually “religion” that’s the problem; it’s the xenophobia and sociopathy that’s often given expression by a certain class of religious fundamentalists.
The source of danger is not a little old Lutheran man who takes communion every Sunday, or a burqa-wearing Muslim woman; the source of danger is those who believe their opinions are valid enough to be imposed on others as reality.
Often such individuals find solace in certain religious messages, and so use the Bible to justify bombing an abortion clinic, or the Koran to justify planting bombs in hotels or train stations.
While religion is not the de facto culprit here (there’s a correlation, but that’s not to be taken as causation), it certainly does seem to lend credence to tribalism and hatred of others. Still, the actual sociopathic tendency, regardless of its mode of expression, is the problem that needs to be eliminated. After all, similar fervent hatreds have been manifest in officially atheistic nation-states.
^^^ EXACTLY !
@...dieAntagonista:
I guess what I’m trying to say is that all kinds of people do bad things for all kinds of reasons. It’s kind of silly to single religion out, as if it’s the only demographic that intrinsically allows people to justify all the bad things they do…
@...warren:
x3. Well said.
@...dieAntagonista: Ah, good point. But I didn’t mean to imply a good or bad to either option. Many people who make their own beliefs end up in a rubber room.
I meant more like, religion implies a static belief generally limited to a single source, as opposed to emergent and progressive personal beliefs, which may certainly draw inspiration from religious sources.
@...Phyreblade:
Yes you’re completely right. At first I was convinced the quote is absolutely perfect, but indeed it’s too general.
@...sylvanish:
Heh, yeah I understand what you’re saying too. And I agree.
I always wanted to be put in a rubber room though. At least for a day or so.
@...dieAntagonista: LOL yeah, ditto on the rubber room… It actually sounds like fun… 😀
@...sylvanish: @...dieAntagonista: @...Phyreblade:
The room is rather comfy, but my nose itches and this jacket won’t let me scratch…..
@...SumoSnipe: LOL did you try rubbing it on the wall?
@...Phyreblade: damn it there you go using logic….
If you could reason with HOUSE it would mean he wasn’t such an ass anymore.
Just what we need. More intolerance, only this time its directed at religious people. When are we going to learn that you can not counter intolerance with more intolerance but only with love, understanding, and curiosity?
I agree with kappleto, intolerance is not the answer. In order for mankind to live peaceful together, they must be tolerant of others. It’s stupid to say that people that are religious can’t reason but atheists can. Everyone human being can reason that’s what makes us different from other animals. I think what is trying to be said here is that religious people don’t use logic. That would also be a ridiculous claim because we all know that religious people can function in the world just as an atheist can and, using logic, vice versa would be true. One think different about religious people is that they have what’s called in psychology abstract thinking, which is the whole basis of what they call “faith”. If you ask any professor of psychology, they will tell you that abstract thinking is of a higher level than logical thinking. Though I do believe that religion causes a lot of bad things in the world and I mean a lot, but I believe that an educated atheist, like myself, should know these two things: 1. Religion doesn’t teach war, those who use religion as a basis for their wars are doing so wrongfully. It is not the fault of religion but the fault of man 2. And you atheist that like to bash religion just remember that the bible foretells of those that oppose it, us, so when you bash it, you might get a negative result.
Thank You
Regarding the last few above comments: Pointing out ridiculous beliefs and the real reasons (which are not rational) that people believe them is not intolerant. Some people understand logical fallacies and personal bias well, others do not (and of course there’s a spectrum). Religious people tend (and it is a strong tendency) to fall under the category of those who don’t. And there is nothing “intolerant” about saying so.
On another note, I’ve been trying to find out if this House quote was said in an episode of show (obviously it’s the character House who is given credit for the quote, so I imagine it must be). And if so, what episode? I’d love to see a vid clip of this if one exists. Can anyone point me to a clip? Or even know what episode, if any, this is from? Thanks.
(Yes, I like parentheses)
I bet this dude didn’t say a hell of a lot of very smart stuff, so I hope he really said it and felt it. I think the message so profound that I am just kind of surprised.
Other animals clearly can and do reason @... whichever semi-educated moron above me holds us to be categorically different to animals, without actually knowing a thing about them or using common sense when talking about them.
It’s depressingly unsurprising how many religious people, i.e. people who claim to have insight into the ultimate nature of reality, in fact neither think nor know very much at all about the world they live in and the life that inhabits it. I suppose when you think you already have all the answers you don’t bother to actually go looking for them.