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Oh God….Obama….no please……
And an anti-military statement in 5,4,3,2…
And when you add Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and national debt interest back in military related spending is only ~20%. Hardly the drastic bias shown here. That said, the amount we spend on defense boggles my mind.
Do you live in a state of fear? Do you ever throughout your day have the thought that a terrorist attack might happen on your bus ride to work? Etc., Etc., Our defense spending is justified everyday that we don’t have a terrorist attack or attack of any kind. And if we do, we have the means to drop all kinds of fun fun on whoever started it in the blink of an eye and for an indefinite amount of time. Hooah.
sorry that came across as a personal attack, however, given the massive size of our economy, our defense spending truly isn’t that impressive. Yes, we do spend more than most the world…combined. But we also carry the weight of mos tthe world on our shoulders.
@...njch412: No, but that is certainly no thanks to the current administration and the RNC, who tried to scare the shit out of us on a daily basis. You don’t get to have it both ways, scare us daily then say they’ve done well because we don’t walk around terrified everyday.
Plus there is that whole being on the UN security council(as laughable as that is)requires us to be armed for policing actions. Oh and being at the forefront of military technology is a big reason plus a good chunk of that pentagon spending goes towards more than weapons. Submarine based ICBMS are expensive but so is gaining intelligence and spying on other nations governments. Plus various black-op programs that are ridiculously clandestine.
One could argue that military spending is creating more terrorists too. Terrorists certainly have more to use for recruiting thanks to the Bush administrations policies.
Living in a state of fear is not living.
BTW, I have no problem w/ a large military/Pentagon/DOD budget; considering where we are in this world, it’s a necessity (as long as we remain top dog).
Personally, I think it is good that we send so much money into our military. After the cold war we got kinda comfy and stopped paying as much attention to our surroundings unless it directly affected an ally or ourselves. When 9/11 rolled around the government realized that the only thing you can count on is the unexpected. Even with mutually assured destruction there will be that one crazy asshole who wants to rain hell even if it’s for a brief second, and a brief second is all it takes to wipe out millions.
Go ahead and call it fear mongering but that is the sad truth of our world.
@...thelotuseater725: I agree. It’s only fear mongering if it’s not true <strong<and and used for the purpose of misleading into an action that we would normally not agree to. Few people think we shouldn’t have gone into Afghanistan, but using it to get us to agree to go into Iraq was a betrayal of the knowledge used.
@...Puulaahi:
Yeah i suppose you could argue that but i don’t think it is a direct result of the bush administrations spending policies. Unless you are talking about his military policies like going ahead and bombing the shit out of iraq and Afghanistan.
@...nyokki:
Oh man don’t even get me started on Iraq.
@...thelotuseater725: I debated whether or not to mention said country specifically. That said, don’t get you started on what?
njch: You want to prevent terrorism? Stop going to the middle east and killing Muslims for thirty years straight?
The Muslims have every right to be terrorists. If fact they should be less restrained: You deserve all out terrorist warfare on home soil. Every US city should be in ruins right now so consider yourself lucky.
By the by, the average Iraqi civilian has more reason to be afraid of you people than any American every as had to be afraid of a Muslim.
You sick fucks in the States are so psychopathic, and have so little concept of justice or fair play, that I’m afraid to share a planet with you, you amoral animals.
@...nyokki:
Bah ignore me, i am wacked out on sleeping pills right now.
why can’t education be where the pentagon is?
Hell, I’m more afraid of Americans than I am of Muslims. By njch’s logic that gives me the right to kill as many Americans as I possibly can.
The world needs more anti-American terrorists. Every single one of you needs to be killed.
@...asdf: Ignoramuses are easier to handle than well informed people.
@Caio.
Nobody even mentioned muslims or the middle east. Muslims aren’t the only people capable of being terrorist
Terrorists. (Since i am sure that typo will do more to solidify your belief that i am some cheap beer swilling truck driver who hates “culerds”)
So we spend more money on Military spending than we do on Education, Health and Science & Energy combined. How depressing.
@...Puulaahi: We’re a huge target, no choice.
@...thelotuseater725: No one mentioned it but what he says smacks true.
It pisses me off when I listen to people talk shit about Muslim people and the religion… which a LOT of American’s are guilty of doing. It’s fear of something that is been stereotyped and shoved through a food processor that the media can more easily feed it to people who are too lazy to pay attention.
As an American, I do not want to be grouped into what Caio is saying but I totally get where his commentary is coming from. I know people who fit 100% into that stereotype. Those people scare me a hell of a lot more than the idea of a terrorist attack.
I have a head cold and the English in my above comment reflects it. Yikes!
@...outofocus: Wow, you really think so? Much respect. I agree in a way. I don’t approve of what Caio said, but I think it’s amazing that somebody like you would think that way. In the sense that you could care less what anybody thinks about Muslims, since it doesn’t really affect you. At least not directly.
@...Caio: Who pissed in YOUR Cheerios? Yeah, guess what- over 70% of Americans were, and still are AGAINST the Iraq War… Thinly-veiled death threats to American citizens who are completely against the whole conflict just makes you look like even MORE of a douchebag, because let’s face it- wishing terrorist attacks on innocent civilians is just a really nice thing to do…
@...nyokki: Thing is we made ourselves the target with our wonderful foreign policy. Damn government, commies and religious extremists fanatical about our retarded foreign policy.
@...outofocus: I concur 110%.
I’ll tell you something: I lived in America for half my life, four different states, but most of it was in supposedly-enlightened San Francisco.
I didn’t meet a single person in red state or blue that wasn’t, at their core, a xenophobic, self-important, ignorant fuck without any sense of fair play. Every American consider themselves the apex and top strata of humanity without actually doing shit: every unemployable piece of shit leech on society sitting infront of the TV 8 hours a day thought they were a genius because they were American.
My parents came to America hoping to find the American dream. They could already speak perfect, if accented English and had university educations before they came. They always worked, always payed taxes, always made their contribution. But that accent kept them in the ghetto and away from upward mobility, and they always took orders from some crackers with family connections. I lived in nothing but shitty ghettos till I live the cesspool country.
And the sheer stupidity. Americans are completely and totally incapable of abstract thought. Even the best and the brightest will, in a pinch, fall back to arrogance, confirmation bias and sloganeering in order to justify their amoral, thieving lifestyles.
There is no American dream. And there is no such thing as a good American. I feel like less of a person just for having been in that country. None of you are even human beings: you don’t act human, you don’t think human. You have no values, no loyalty, no ethics.
You know, I listen to Osama’s speeches and he’s right: you’ve always been mindless genocide machines, and I think the elimination of Americans should be everyone else’s top priority, for the protection of all humanity.
@...Puulaahi: No, it started w/ WWI, caused our involvement in WWII. The fact that succeeded beyond our wildest dreams in WWII put us in this position.
@...dieAntagonista: I’m not totally sure I understood your comment. Hopefully I’m not babbling on the wrong track.
I don’t agree with what Caio said, in the sense of it being applied to all Americans but there is this taint in regards to Muslims that exists in the American mindset. Not all American’s have issues with Muslims but the distrust seed has been planted. Look at all the negative commentary regarding Obama being a Muslim. If 9-11 had never happened, that would not have ever been brought up.
I have several friends who are Muslims… and several more friends who would be assumed to be Muslim because of how they look (they’re actually Hindu and other varieties of Indian). I also have several friends (online) who have actively expressed distrust of *all* Muslims, not just the crazy activist Muslims.
Christians have killed more in the name of god than any other religion. Religious fanatics are to be taken seriously but I do not believe that the Muslim religion and those who follow it are what we should be afraid of.
As hard as it was when Bush won the second time (I was not adding to his good ratings), I’ve never been more “ashamed” (for lack of a less dramatic word) of my fellow Americans than shortly after 9-11 when people were attacking/being rude to anyone who looked like they were from the Middle East.
And that’s the problem: Europeans, Canadians, Japanese, Latin Americans, they see an idealized portrait of America that comes from sitcoms. They’ve never been there and they give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that Bush and David Dukes are mistakes rather than the rule.
If any non-American spent a couple years in the cesspool they would come to the same conclusions as me and realize that you amoral animals can’t live in the same world as human beings.
@...outofocus:
Well yeah i do agree with you there. It pisses me off when people talk about followers of the muslim faith/arabs as a whole being primal warmongering villains. I mean that kind of thinking is what leads to holocaust proportion hatred. A lot people don’t realize that the religion is more or less getting manipulated to conform to some psycho’s personal view. Said psycho gets into a position of power and eventually gives his nation a choice of ” do what i say or die” And the next thing you know the whole region get’s a bad rap and stereotypes arise. I mean islam in it’s base form has some morally questionable beliefs but then again what religion doesn’t?
@...Caio: Now you sound like you’re feeling sorry for yourself.
I understand what you’re saying but your opinions are on the extreme side so I’m having a hard time taking you seriously. It’s all hate hate hate.
Did your parents run into the problem of their college degrees not being accepted? I have several friends who had masters in the countries they came from, only to end up with the equivalent of a bachelor degree here so instead of being a geologist or something enjoyable, they ended up cleaning at the local hospital. However, none of the people I know who have immigrated here, good english or bad have ended up living in bad neighborhoods.
I grew up in the ghetto. We were just poor but we did work our ways out of the ghetto, slowly but surely. My mother even owns a reasonably sized home (nothing too big or too small) in a safe, clean area.
I hate San Francisco. I grew up near there. In general, I just don’t like the area. People are really hard to connect with here. Many people seem to think that because they live in an area that is stereotyped (inaccurately) as being insanely liberal that somehow they are smarter than everyone else. That’s part of the reason I spend so much time online… finding down to earth people who simply enjoy thinking, talking, learning, etc etc… it’s really hard to do here. I had much better luck in San Diego with that.
Thankfully your experience is not everyone’s experience.
@...thelotuseater725: Exactly.
I’m okay with people who have beliefs (and don’t talk about them almost EVER) but the bible bangers need to stay away. Really… far… away.
When the shit hits the fan I do not want to be anywhere near people who believe in Armageddon.
@...nyokki: There are a whole pile of reasons why and they keep building. We pretty much invented Osama Bin Laden.
@...Caio: Blanket xenophobic statement about a whole nation of people. I bow to Caio the superior moral human being.
* – whole
@...Puulaahi: What’s your basis for “We pretty much invented Osama Bin Laden.”? Is it because we dropped the ball after the first gulf war?
Billions of dollars of government spending to destroy entire nations of people? A country founded of the world’s largest genocide, destroying hundreds of cultures, languages, traditions and peoples? Thieves on stolen land pretending to be a legitimate nation?
Oh, but also obnoxious sarcasm. Keep telling me you’re one of the “good ones” to use the phrase you people used for me.
@...outofocus:
Well i worship the christian god myself and i believe in the armageddon. When armageddon happens it won’t be the direct result of muslims. If they actually read the bible they would realize that it is going to be of Eastern origin, not muslim origin. They would also know that the antichrist has as much of a chance of being muslim as well as jewish or christian.TThey don’t realize that they worship the same god as the muslims either. I feel like i should apologize for my people’s idiocy but i shouldn’t have to because it is not the opinion a lot of us have, much like how muslims don’t apologize for terrorism. You can’t hold things against the many for the acts of the few
@...thelotuseater725: I agree that you should not have to apologize for people who share the same beliefs as you (assuming you have nothing to do with any sort of crazy behavior and didn’t just stand by and watch it happen).
I don’t know enough about the idea of Armageddon to know about eastern stuff or Muslims … etc.
My comment was tongue in cheek. Basically stating that if/when something really bad happens, the people who believe in Armageddon are going to be the last people anyone who wants to survive should be near.
@...outofocus:
Ah yes I agree with what you said exactly. I don’t know, you might not realise this, but it’s unusual for somebody like you think like that. At least from what I’ve seen.
I know enough Americans who aren’t that ignorant, and know not all Muslims are terrorists. But not many care enough to defend that belief.
@...Caio:
If you replace ‘American’ with ‘Austrian’, it could be my story.
You really think America is the only country with ignorant people? You live in a dream world.
Xenophobia is part of human nature, you can go anywhere and find it. It has nothing to do with Americans being Americans. It has all to do with people not being educated, being manipulated, brainwashed and so on.
Are you really surprised, that in the most powerful country in the world, where huge companies spend a fortune on manipulating and brainwashing people – you find people who have poor judgement?
Don’t you know anything about how people develop, and why there are some who are more ignorant than others?
Your logic is flawed. You accuse Americans of being xenophobic, yet at the same time you’re xenophobic yourself.
I’ll tell you what, as long as you have that mindset, it doesn’t matter which Americans you meet and it does not matter what they say, they’ll always appear to be racist to you.
@...dieAntagonista: What do you mean by “somebody like you”? What am I like?
@...outofocus:
Honestly outofocus when you go up to these christian fundies to point out errors in their ways they make your life a living hell. I never stood by and ignored any negative action or remark from one of them because you are just as bad as them at that point.
@...outofocus: A non-muslim? Somebody who isn’t affected by people thinking Muslims are subhumans. I’m not making any assumptions about who you are, just pointing out the significance of what you aren’t.
@...thelotuseater725: I have no context for whatever situation it is you are imagining in your response to be able to agree or disagree.
Sorry my brain is on the frits right now, What i was referring to is when you said “I agree that you should not have to apologize for people who share the same beliefs as you (assuming you have nothing to do with any sort of crazy behavior and didn’t just stand by and watch it happen).”. Basically I’m not involved with crazy religious bullshit and whenever somebody tries spewing Anti-muslim or anti-anything i usually step in and say ” dude that’s not true”. But there is an inherent danger to doing that because the fundamentalist christians will go out of their way to harm you and ruin your life. It’s happened to me many times.
@...dieAntagonista: Oh, so it is surprising to you that I’m speaking up on the subject of irrational hate towards Muslim when I’m not a Muslim?
(just making sure I understand… i swear this cold resides in the center of my brain)
I am affected by people thinking Muslims (or any group of people) are subhumans. It makes me sick and angry. If people act on that hate, there is the possibility that people I care about (and the people they care about), both in the U.S. and in the U.K. could be hurt. Not only that, but if the people in this country start making decisions based on their ignorance fueled fear of Muslims, that will also affect me.
My son is 11. I think it matters even if it doesn’t affect me. That’s emotional reasoning but I haven’t been able to talk myself out of it. heh.
That aside, on this subject, I don’t actually think that differently from most of my friends who live in the Bay Area (versus other states). Maybe it’s because we all come in contact with Muslim people, as well as others who have been treated poorly since 9-11. I don’t know. I grew up around racists but the mind set never caught (although some of my neighbors tempt me). It simply does not make sense to me to hate an entire group of people uniformly simply based on what bible they read or where they come from.
Now if we start talking about organized groups, like say the KKK… well, you get where I’m going with that. 😉
@...thelotuseater725: I understand what you are saying. You’re right that there is a fine line sometimes.
@...outofocus: Heh, yes, precisely. Nah it’s cool, it sounded a bit weird the way I said it I know.
Ah see, just the way you talk gives me goosebumps. I’ve noticed already how open-minded you are, and if that’s how you raise your kid, that is going to be one fine man one day. But yeah nevertheless it surprises me.
And you’re absolutely correct, the way you explained how things like that are going to affect you.
You appear to be very aware of how the world works, since you realise that even things like that can affect you. Even if indirectly.
I’m sorry, I’m just totally high on your words.
@...dieAntagonista: Dude, you made me blush. Thanks. I don’t consider myself open minded really but I can see how I probably am (at least in comparison to some). I feel like I have so much to learn.
I’m just glad that what I’m saying makes sense to someone. heh.
@...outofocus: You’re welcome. Just my thoughts and feelings on this subject.
@...dieAntagonista: What area do you live in, anyway? (totally not on subject)
@...outofocus: Hehe, uht oh. I’m pretty sure you thought I live in America right? I live in Europe, in Austria. But that’s not where I’m originally from.
I know I always talk about American things very passionately, I’m just a big fan really. If that’s even possible.
@...dieAntagonista: I wasn’t sure actually but I was curious. :]
Is the Governator well thought of in Austria (being that he’s a movie star)? As a subject of the state government he’s over seeing, I personally am not a big fan.
I had a friend visit me from London recently. It was fun to see her reactions to things and to hear her preconceptions. I had a friend from Ireland visit twice but all he talked about was how nice it was to see the sun finally. hehe
My response to this entire thread:
@...outofocus:
Haha oh my. At first, everybody was all, fuck yeah, an Austrian finally doing some important stuff in another country. But when he didn’t do anything, when they gave Stanley Tookie Williams the death penalty, people in Arnold’s hometown started protesting. (pretty cool I know) They were ashamed so to say, that he would let this happen.
So Arnold got pissed at them, and demanded they should remove his name from their soccer stadium, and gave the town their ring of honor back.
So now everybody hates him. He’s obviously not doing a good job.
Mm, yes I’m sure he appreciated the sun haha. I’m going to visit the States too, as soon as I finished school. Obviously, since I love it so much without ever having been there.
Didn’t you guys recently have a Hapsburg as a Prime Minister? And don’t you keep electing old Nazis to your legislature?
@...Caio: Actually, our president is not a Habsburger, but a very open-minded man. He is an agnostic and under his presidency, gay marriage got legalised in all of Austria.
Though yes I have to admit, the strongest party are the right wing Nazi assholes. Recently the most important one of them died though (Jörg Haider). He died after leaving a gay bar, drunk, in a car crash.
Oh wait, I thought by prime minister you meant our president. I don’t think we have, what you would call, a prime minister. So I’m not sure who you’re talking about. What do you know about the Habsburg, that makes you think they’re bad?
Sorry I was wrong, I meant EU rep. Otto von Habsburg.
I suppose my problem with the Hapsburgs would be that they, I don’t know, caused hundreds of years of war in order to preserve and promote absolutist monarchy throughout Europe? That they payed for every attack on modern democracy in it’s nascent phases? As late as WWI? Not only through direct war but by funding and providing soldiers for destructive civil wars?
Oh, yes, and let’s not forget what they did to the Balkans.
But that was recent history, of course. You also have the fact that Hapsburgs were on the Spanish throne during the most violent part of the inquisition, the brutal wars in central and south America and so on. All in the name of Jesus.
The Hapsburgs were religious fanatics who, realistically, did more to fight democracy than any other group in the world.
Uh, alright I guess you’re right if you put it that way.
See, I can’t even disagree with you, but at the same time, that’s not how we learned about the Habsburg.
People here talk about them like some kind of war heroes.
And I actually didn’t know that they were on the Spanish throne… like I mentioned before, the history teachers here, are obsessed with fanatics. I could even show you books in which they mention them like some honourable royalty.
So how did you learn those things, at university I suppose? Or did you read any books in particular.
Um, university… and high school? Especially the Spain thing you’ve never heard of Karl V Habsburg? Like probably one of the top ten most famous emperors in history?
oh fuck me
Ow yeah right. Yes what I meant was that I didn’t know that they had such an influence during that time because they were Habsurgers. And as you said, religious fanatics.
I don’t know how to explain it to you, but that’s not what I learned even in high school.
I’d say the same way some French people see Napoleon as a hero, same goes for Austrians here apparently when it comes to these people. I’m kind of shocked to be honest.
Yes. I suppose they have different reputations in every country.
In Portugal they are not well remembered: they took over the country for about 60 years starting in 1580 (around the same time they took lots of Holland). Then in the 1820s they assassinated the pro-democracy king of Portugal and started/funded a civil war that destroyed the country, sending it into absolute poverty for over a century. All because the Habsburgs were so anti-democracy.
I’m willing to bet the Serbs and Croats like them even less.
@...njch412: Actually, no, I don’t live in a state of fear. We’ve had two true attempts at terror from outside the country, and only one succeeded. On the same target no less. Meanwhile, we’ve had much more and closer attempts from INSIDE the country. And all the high tech that we have at our disposal doesn’t help against such medium tech things that we do get hit with in Iraq and Afghanistan like EFPs.
@...doc: Add the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and even that starts to pale.
@...dieAntagonista: “They were ashamed so to say, that he would let this happen.
So Arnold got pissed at them, and demanded they should remove his name from their soccer stadium, and gave the town their ring of honor back.”
Woah! I didn’t know that. Granted, I don’t follow politics that closely but what a petty bitch.
I’m not sure why people in Austria care about the life of an ex-gang member who by being one of the forefathers of that gang caused a lot of death and violence. I have been witness to gang violence, gang mentality, behavior… it has become a subculture, not just for the poor “minorities” in California but also for the middle class white kids who lack identity. While that guy was tried only for the handful of murders he himself was convicted on, he was responsible for so much more.
It is kewl that people actually protested for something. I wish people in the US would do that. They used to.
Your conversation with Caio is interesting. I’m not familiar with the “Habsurgers”. I had a World History class in 8th or 9th grade, it may have been mentioned but not to any degree where it stayed in my memory. I left high school early so maybe that was something we learned more about.
I took Russian for a few years. It was very interesting to compare what we’ve been taught about certain historical events versus what they’ve been taught.