@...Paul_Is_Drunk: “There’s a reason why auto parts are standardized.”

There’s a reason computer parts are standardized too. PowerMacs and Mac Pros have been using standard memory, PCI architecture, ATA, etc. since PowerPC G3 — possibly before. And were way ahead of their time in terms of support too — rumor has it you can stick up to 1.5 GB of RAM in one of the oldies. I haven’t personally verified this myself.

@...AlecDalek: I’m doing your posts in order. There *ARE* millions of upgrades and tuning options. Just like a PC, you have to do your fucking research and make sure you’re getting the right kind of RAM from Kingston, PNY, or any other manufacturer of standard RAM. You just have to make sure your shit matches their motherboard’s capability — oh shit, just like a PC. As I said before, their RAM has been standard for well over a decade now, starting back when G3’s used PC100/133 SDRAM and G4’s used PC133.

Can you replace the motherboard? Haven’t looked at the newer Mac Pros yet, but I suspect they haven’t changed this fact — yes, but you obviously can’t keep Mac OS X if you do that. PowerMacs definitely used ATX screw layouts.

Can you blow out the OS and install a new one? Hrm, not quite yet — I believe Microsoft is working on this, and I’m pretty sure Linux (elilo bootloader in particular) provides a solution for those as well.

Build one for $300 in parts and $0 in OS/software? First off, where the hell are you getting parts? Second off, you’d better be installing Linux for that $0 part to be accurate — technically, if you’re pirating Windows (which is illegal), you actually have at least $99-$129 in software even though you stole it. Which breaches the cost of a Mac Mini.

… By the way, check out how easy it is to take this new MacBook apart. OMG SO PROPRIETARY even though it’s like the easiest removal of a laptop’s motherboard (or logic board, whatever) that I have ever seen.

If you want to bitch and fucking moan about lack of openness and standardization, start bitching and fucking moaning about Windows’ lack of both, because at least the base system (kernel, basic UNIX binary utilities, etc.) of Mac OS X is open source, while you’re lucky if you get any Windows source code by any legal means — and it doesn’t mean you get to share.

The amount of rampant, raging ridiculousness is grating my nerves, and even drove me to register an account just to try to cure some of it. Congrats.

@...hvymetal86: You wrote:

before the Intel macs, macs couldn’t just use the same speed/type ram, they had to get special mac ram, which cost a shitload more.

No, you idiot, they used standard SDRAM. G3 and G4 used PC100 and PC133. They moved on to standard DDR in later versions — just that they, Apple, didn’t support your ass if you didn’t buy Apple. Most PC vendors don’t support you if you don’t buy your parts from them anyway.

Yes, I know this from experience. I’ve upgraded a hell of a lot more Macs than you, I suspect, including the ones that do suck to do so with (iMac G3, pre-the little door at the bottom).

They’ve already quite pointlessly made it more difficult. Do most people have Phillips head screwdrivers? Yes, and those type screws are used in almost all windows laptops and desktops. how many people have Torx tools? Not too fucking many. (I do, but I own computer tool kits).

My current computer has Phillips-head screwdrivers, this is true. However, the ones my computer has are really, incredibly small; small enough that you’d need specialized kit. I suspect this is the case in most laptops, as this is even a “lower-end” model. How many people have the TINY Phillips heads? “Not too fucking many.” And this seems to be the case with the laptops I see in CompUSA as well.

Pointlessly? I wouldn’t want just anyone screwing around in the product I made and breaking it and then bitching at me. Most likely people would come upon the screw, go “huh???” and then do some research. THEN start upgrading. Which is a better path than “just give them the standard screwdriver and let them go to town, possibly destroying everything in their computer.”

Yup, keyboard still unnecessarily difficult to get to.

… you’re really nitpicking about access to the keyboard, of all things, when the logic board — one of the most difficult parts to get to on any laptop — is clearly and easily accessible. Hokay.

Most windows laptops have ONE screw securing the optical drive, and you can take the drive out without removing ANY panels from the laptop.

The old ones, maybe. The new ones you have to take the entire damn thing apart — or at least, my laptop forces you to. For reference, I’m on a Compaq Presario V3019US. And there are at least two screws securing it.

Example 4: Most windows PC’s optical drives are still more convenient than macs. If a disc every gets stuck, you can just poke an straightened paperclip in the little eject hole and Voila! Out pops the disc tray, without even turning the laptop on. Mac laptops (and some desktops) lack this handy feature, and I’ve NEEDED IT several times when dealing with broken macs at work, cause there’s no easy way to get a fucking disc out so you can stick the mac OS on in for the testing environment and command line.

There’s no cure for “do your fucking research and quit your fucking whining.” If it’s a tray loader (iMac G3 and some G4 and probably some eMacs, iBook G3, Powerbook G3 and possibly some G4), your hole is right fucking there. If it’s a slot loader (iBook G4, later Powerbook G4, PowerMacs, etc.), the inside of the slot to the right of where you load the CD is where your hard-eject is.

Speaking of — slot-load == less chance to break your computer. The CD is the most you can damage. Well, I suppose inserting a broken CD could damage your slot-loader, but I’m pretty sure a broken CD could damage your tray-loader, too.

Upgradeability’s not been a huge issue in Powerbooks from what I understand — read up on the Powerbook Pismo (PowerBook G3 400/500 w/ FireWire). iBooks, obviously and admittedly, are difficult to get to for hard drives, but the built-in wireless card and RAM are still easy-peasy to get to — two tabs on the keyboard come back, then you flip the keyboard up. (Note: to get to RAM you also unscrew a shield that requires almost a jeweler’s screwdriver, that thing is small.)

On the subject of easy upgradeability of wifi cards: HP locks what cards you can put in their laptop by PCI vendor ID (if your card’s vendor ID != HP’s magic number, the laptop refuses to boot). Other manufacturers likely do the same.

I entirely missed this first part of your post which I’ll get to now:

And I laugh at your attempt to say macs are easy to swap parts out in.

You’ve obviously never worked on a PowerMac — and Mac Pros continue the PowerMac’s design philosophy, so this probably applies to them as well. How to open a PowerMac: pull latch up, pull side down. That’s it. Standard RAM, standard compartments for the RAM, standard ATA IDE hard drive, standard ATA IDE optical… I suspect they’re SATA now in the Mac Pro, but still no less standard, especially given that they’re on Intel architecture now.

It was also ridiculously simple to replace RAM on old all-in-one iMac G3’s in many cases — get a quarter, turn the “screw” on the bottom, and open the door. Full access to memory. Everything else though was a bitch, I will admit — what do you expect from a machine that’s built into the monitor? The old Gateways made the same way are just as much of a bitch, if not more so.

So go take your own willful ignorance and shove it up your ass.