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Translation: We Are FUCKED Royally! And they left out war expenses too.
That’s great and all. But I am more interested in where it is GOING.
I can’t wait to see how Gor, Exacerbate, Fazhworth, etc spin this.
My guess: Numbers are the tool of magicians and the liberal media. Real facts don’t need numbers only “right” and “wrong” and the the USA is always Right.
USA is Great. There is no Debate. There is only One USA so one is the only number is I need.
My opinion, let the companies that made bad decisions just fail… other ones that won’t suck will rise up in their place because there will still be the need for a good portion of the failed companies services. And it will save all of us a lot of money.
Hvy, I said that to Ghille once and he called me a socialist.
Do you hate America?
“but that’s for playing”
The worst part, is the fallout from all the batshit crazy spending Bush has done will happen after he’s out of office. So someone else will take the blame, which sucks.
@anyone who understands all this:
What would be the effect on our economy, and the individual, if we don’t bail these companies out…AIG, in particular?
My guess? If we got rid of bailouts completely?
A long period of difficult readjustment. Everyone would have to tighten up their belts for quite a while. It would probably prolong the length of the terrible market.
—————-
BUT if the theories behind capitalism are true, which I believe they are, what HVYmetal said will happen. People will see the terrible economy not as a crisis, but as low prices and high unemployment, which means that it’s time to buy cheap and employ to built.
If that is the case, the economy will come back -after a long period of restructuring (in which things would no doubt suck)- stronger, freer, and more diverse, thus less prone to these terrible catastrophes.
That is pretty much the basic principle of capitalism and the free market, but apparently in the USA capitalism is socialism, up is down, right is wrong.
If it was just AIG, though, if they *alone* were forced into bankruptcy I think the economy would probably make a quick recovery because anyone with half a brain would know that it would be a good thing to have those idiots out of the game. They’re a bunch of cowboys who think the stock market is a slot machine.
They’re the same type of panic-driven investors that will let DOW go down 200 over a rumour, and up 500 because the fed said it’d be giving tax money to someone somewhere. They blow bubbles and cause a lot of fake growth. Fuck those idiots they should be flipping hamburgers at McDonalds. We need safe, cautious investors: They are the reason investment works at all.
And yes I know they’re not direct investors, but they insure finance: they know who they’re insuring and they make calculated decisions about who to back.
They’re part of the same overall slot-machine investment system that’s guarantees 0 market security. It should be the insurance companies that discourages this thing but everyone’s out for a quick buck.
Straight up, Caio. Not every bank or investment firm in America is in trouble. The smart ones are doing alright. Make bad decisions, face the consequences. That’s Capitalism.
And nyokki, my guess is that people who live within their means will do fine, people who rely on lines of credit may have a rough patch ahead.
I HAS A GREAT IDEA
LET’S DEVALUE OUR DOLLAR BY BILLIONS IN ONE FUCKING DAY
THAT WILL TOTALLY HELP
man u do realize buying that much stock from aig for only 700 billion will prolly pay off later the stock was worth alot more than that a few months ago
I generally think the same. I asked because I watched a segment on the news (not sure which one) and the consensus seemed to be that we had to bail out AIG because not doing so would cause bank collapse because the they (or maybe financial institutions, which are apparently different from banks)would no longer be able to get or make loans.
But that’s the problem, Poopchu: When you invest in a company like that you’re not investing in talent or people that contribute to the economy, you’re just using clever smoke and mirrors to ride the wave of fail.
—
@nyoki: That is true. It could happen. That is the dark side and some times these situations have happened: especially countries not working from a strong economic base to begin with but also rich countries as well.
It’s a risk to let all these companies fail at once. But it’s also a risk to have these unstable bubbles as well. Eventually something’s gotta change.
I think America – at this exact moment – is strong enough to survive this round. But if you keep using band-aid solutions without addressing the basic structural problems, you’re just going to keep getting the same problems over and over and over.
IMO a bank collapse is massive risk which makes me piss my pants – because it could very well lead to another Great Depression. But systemic stagnation is what I’m really afraid of because that’s what really destroys great civilizations and causes dark ages.
Hey, remember that $600 check Bush sent us all to boost the economy…It wor…OH SHIT!
Just so no one thinks I’m exaggerating or going crazy, here’s a good example of systemic stagnation causing a dark age:
www.forumancientcoins.com/NumisWiki/view.asp?key=Edict%20of%20Diocletian%20Edict%20on%20Prices
A hundred years later West Rome wasn’t much more than a few cities in Italy. East Rome had abandoned the Empire all together and forced themselves to change when it was really too late.
Shit. Should’a read the news before I wrote that post. Looks like the Bank Failures were an inevitability no matter what.
Well the cards are really up in the air now. I really have no clue what’s going on. Forget everything I said, Nyoki.
Congratulations. You have just lost the game. Thanks for playing. Have a nice day! 🙂
When discussing the terms of business and finance (my favorite subject), I happen to know a thing or two about it…
Greed has gotten us into the current situation that we’re at now. Lack of financial education and experience tends to do these things. And the derivatives market bubble looks like it will be popping soon, so if you’re a risk trader (i.e. options, futures), the game is about to get very tricky…
*ponders thoughts*
As you all know, there are three main social classes: the rich, the middle class, and the poor. In 4 to 6 years, the middle class will more than likely either be small or nonexistent.
Right now is a good time to invest in financial education because listening to so-called “experts” on TV blabbing about how the market will magically recover won’t help YOU.
A lot of Americans are still in that Industrial Age mode of thinking when it comes to money; that entitlement mentality. And as you can see…your 401K or diversified portfolio won’t be enough to help you.
I’m not yet a master of business and finance, but as a blooming student of it I can damn sure tell you that I highly suggest that you find a way to make income other than the earned income that you make as an employee. That is all I have for now.
How would I go about doing that, Snarky?
I didn’t really want to seem like I was preaching or advertising, but I got my start by reading Why We Want You To Be Rich by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki. I then read more of Robert Kiyosaki’s books. But Kiyosaki’s books are for people who are new to the world of business and finance like I was.
It’s a good start, even though Kiyosaki doesn’t really go into detail on how to help yourself financially. Remember, that’s only part one of it. You have to spend a lot of time increasing your financial education. And, it is a good time to learn about using stock options. Go to www.optiontradingtips.com to find out more.
Sorry, man, but it’s those exact same bubbling techniques of trading on developments and not structure one can be confident in that’s killing the economy right now.
I can’t ethically believe in playing the market and my money goes nowhere but bluechips. I might not be a millionaire by the time I’m 30 but at least I know I’m not raping society.
@Caio
Fine. Take your safe, low-risk path. And I’ve only delved in the whole derivatives market thing, never really stepped my foot in the pool so to speak because of Warren Buffet’s prediction that the derivatives bubble is set to pop anytime soon.
Actually, I’ve got a good number of Iraqi dinar that’s set to supposedly revalue this year along with Vietnam dong. Not holding my breath for it, though.
@Caio
And another thing: I do believe that blue-chip stocks are good to invest in, because of the stability of the company, which should also match their financial statement history. I want to have a large share of blue-chips, though.