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Oh yeah, well in an athiest society 100% of people go to hell.
In every society 100% of people go to hell, according to someone.
While I do like the facts and statistics brought forth by this video, I still can’t help but wonder would the world be better off without religion? Where would all those lesser educated people who believe in religion turn to? If religion wasn’t there, would they become more savage or civil?
I’m in no way a religious person but these questions and statistics bring about interesting topics.
Sneaky Snake if they dont believe in hell they arnt going to end up there are they?
didnt like the video i want proof of the stats etc. o wait i dont care lol. i reckon if someone wants to follow a religon let them and if not they should be free to do the same. i dont know about the society not needing religon because religons are mostly there for moral guidence. i mean shit most of the western worlds laws are based on the 10 commandments.
o btw its a bit misleading and manipulative but i reckon laws are based on religon because humanity is fallable and if you base laws from a divine entity then people are gonna think they are pretty darn infallable
48% of Europe does not believe in God? Not according to the EU survey.
ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_225_report_en.pdf
According to this 82% of Europe is religious in one way or another, and believes in the very least in some kind of higher force.
Hey teen angstheists: One of the most important aspects of that empirical evidence/scholarly method thing you are always declaring yourself proponents of is citing and checking sources. Just a little tip.
Laws based on the Ten Commandments? Hogwash. It doesn’t take a sky faerie to figure out you need laws against theft or murder. But when was the last time anyone got arrested for making a graven image?
People who claim the Ten Commandments are the basis for law or morality really ought to find out what they say.
72 % of all statistics are made up on the spot.
I actually had this running on a web site that generated a random number between 60 and 90.
I think the Jews might have been onto something with the whole ‘don’t warship images’ thing. People worship photoshops of celebrities and now little girls stick their finger down their throats to puke or wear make-up like clowns.
Not saying that it’s religious truth or nothing. Just good advice.
Disbelief in divine cosmic order does not make you anymore intelligent. In fact it’s amazing how much energy is expended trying to rationalize away the incredible synchronous coincidence that displays itself at every turn for those who care to look. Atheists love to claim control over their existence and deny the very concept of predestination, how feeble minded or willfully ignorant do you have to be to not realize that the miraculous paradox of reality is that both freewill and destiny exist simultaneously depending on your level of perception, which is a function of how much information your awareness can process, concerning the dynamics of the fundamental elements comprising the reality you are perceiving.
I experience this material universe through my physical senses, which themselves are complex electro-chemical interactions afforded a brief existence by the virtue of their shape interaction with the machinery of my brain. The brain that is merely a physical manifestation of the cosmic possibility of me. An astounding series of random events had to take place before I could type out this Rant of Wisdom, yet here it is.
Prove to me beyond all doubt that this experience, this dream of existence that we all are sharing, is not also happening to a Cosmic Awareness, that is for the moment beyond our ability perceive. I can’t prove the existence of The God, but I can’t disprove it either. All I know is what I am personally living through, and I feel the presence of something more. Even if it’s only chemistry it still serves the purpose of experiencing this grand creation.
If you give me pills that silence the voice of the universe, show me the folly of religion and convince me that this is all one big nothing.
How will that make me a healthier, happier, more intelligent human being?
Atheists don’t, as a whole, deny ‘predestination’ or ‘destiny’, but the wishy-washy, quasi-supernatural spin that those words suggest is left out. It’s much more reasonable to discuss ‘free will’ than ‘destiny’, since the latter presupposes phenomena that, by their very definitions, cannot be proven nor disproven.
WHAT’S THIS!?!?!?
Intellectual conversation on internets?? We’ll have none of that!! Allow me to get you back on track:
I kid. But seriously, the info is interesting but since it comes mostly from Atheist organizations, I can’t shake the feeling that those facts may be a bit biased. It’s important to keep an open mind in matters such as these.
PS: Does anyone know the title of that song? I know it’s from The Matrix but that’s all I got.
Religious people are pretty fucking stupid. Go atheism! 🙂
@Supernaut
i think you pwnd yourself there.
@TheGonz
The song was Clubbed to Death by Rob D.
Getting involved in an argument about religion is more foolish that getting involved in a land war in Asia.
I am an Atheist. I don’t care if someone else believes in God. As long as they don’t mind me laughing a bit when their God snubs a family member.
As for Europe… I have traveled most of it. If more than 20% of people believe in God it’s news to me. You couldn’t fill a Church in Germany, Belgium, France, or the Czech Republic without giving away food, beer, and door prizes. People are REGISTERED as belonging to a religion, typically for the sake of a parent or grandparent, but you will never see these people in a church.
The Polish are different. MANY more Polish believe in God. Easily more than 50% of the population, I would say. But even here belief is more for the old and the sick.
That is what I have seen and my first hand opinion.
Czy mieszkasz u Polska? Moja żona jest Polską. Ona jest z Gdansku. A ty? Jednak troche rozumiem i movię po Polsku. Muszę uczyć się mović po Polsku na moye dziecko.
I’m sure I butchered that quite well, especially the grammar. Thankfully, my wife and the rest of her family are atheists. But not annoyingly so, like so many young Americans on the Interwebs.
@caradoc
ok picture a world without moral guidance the complete antithesis of this world we dont have any morals at all etc no guidence in the for m of religon.
How would you know what is right and wrong? second how would you get the masses to listen to you? (as obviously the stronger are going to use there strength to their advantage) without the strength and fear that a divine entity provides im not sure where we would be. btw im an atheist but i dont flout it and think all christians are blind ignorant zeolots. i know lots of aetheists love to denounce christianity but they are being hipocritical and close minded.
EDIT: i dont* think all christians … etc
74% of British don’t believe in a god? That means only a quarter of the population have any kind of religous beliefs? Not possible. I’d love to know where he got a number like that.
@... Snow
You would like to know where people would get morals without the guidance of religion? Fine. That’s very easy. What allows a society to exist in a relatively peaceful state. Murder disrupts this peace. As does theft. As does rape. As does war. Morals are flexible and subject to change over time. In MesoAmerica there was a time when human sacrifice was not only accepted, but looked upon as a good thing. This has certainly changed. There was a time in the Nordic countries that it was acceptable for groups of people to go on raiding parties to steal valuables. This was called going “viking”. Maybe you’ve heard of it? What I’m saying is, if you remove the religious element from morality and focus on social parameters, you get pretty much the same thing.
Wait, I may be wrong there. I can’t see how, in an atheist society, anyone could think of bombing an abortion clinic or discriminating against someone for their sexual orientation as being moral.
Oh, and Snow, with regard to “most of the western worlds laws are based on the 10 commandments”…um, have you actually READ the 10 Commandments? Can you honestly list them off without looking them up? Let me clue you in here.
The first half of the 10 commandments are for priests, the other half for morons. What law is covered by “I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me…”?
What law is covered by “Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above…”?
What law is covered by “Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD…”?
Are you getting the idea here? Just because the 10 Commandments covers SOME of the same basic concepts as many other cultures, don’t make the mistake that these cultures got their morals from the 10 Commandments.
Agnosticism, the intelligent way to hedge one’s bets.
@... the quietguy
> Disbelief in divine cosmic order does not make you anymore intelligent. In fact it’s amazing how much energy is expended trying to rationalize away the incredible synchronous coincidence that displays itself at every turn for those who care to look. Atheists love to claim control over their existence and deny the very concept of predestination, how feeble minded or willfully ignorant do you have to be to not realize that the miraculous paradox of reality is that both freewill and destiny exist simultaneously depending on your level of perception, which is a function of how much information your awareness can process, concerning the dynamics of the fundamental elements comprising the reality you are perceiving.
I experience this material universe through my physical senses, which themselves are complex electro-chemical interactions afforded a brief existence by the virtue of their shape interaction with the machinery of my brain. The brain that is merely a physical manifestation of the cosmic possibility of me. An astounding series of random events had to take place before I could type out this Rant of Wisdom, yet here it is.
Prove to me beyond all doubt that this experience, this dream of existence that we all are sharing, is not also happening to a Cosmic Awareness, that is for the moment beyond our ability perceive. I can’t prove the existence of The God, but I can’t disprove it either. All I know is what I am personally living through, and I feel the presence of something more. Even if it’s only chemistry it still serves the purpose of experiencing this grand creation.
If you give me pills that silence the voice of the universe, show me the folly of religion and convince me that this is all one big nothing.
How will that make me a healthier, happier, more intelligent human being?
You strike me as a deist…well, that is the first step towards atheism…I wish you well.
Atheism is NOT the belief that there is no God, but the belief that there is no need for a God.
^^^ Sorry there buddy, but Webster.com disagrees…
Atheism – a disbelief in the existence of deity
Sorry, but NEED is not a part of Atheism.
Personally, I think that we do need a God. One who is consistent, reliable, and powerful enough to wright the wrongs of humanity.
However, need does not create God.
And I am not willing to settle for fictitious bullshit in place of such a being.
That is what makes me an Atheist. I simply do not have faith in God or my fellow man. For me “faith” = “gullibility”, and I want no part of that.
@Caio
Nice try, but you’re comparing measurements of two separate things. The video only stated that x number of Europeans don’t believe in a personal god. Your stat just shows x number of people that attend services. Correlation does no mean causation. I grew up going to church, and I can honestly say, I think at least Half of the congregation weren’t “believers”, they’re there because of who they married (or who they want to marry), other such reasons.
I’m not say either stat us right or wrong, I’m just pointing out they don’t measure the same thing, therefore, they are not comparable.
If there is a ‘god’ and this god is truly supposed to be omnipotent, then why does this god need us here on earth to pray and worship them. The entire basis of modern religions is flawed. I agree with AlecDalek on the subject really.
I told myself I wouldn’t get in an internet argument today, but I just couldn’t help it:
@thequietguy
“Disbelief in divine cosmic order does not make you anymore intelligent. ”
This is actually a really good point. The video demonstrates that smart people tend to not believe in God. But it does not show that if someone stopped believing in God, they would suddenly become smart.
“Atheists love to claim control over their existence and deny the very concept of predestination”
I’m an Atheist and I believe in determinism. Pretty much invalids your point right there.
“Prove to me beyond all doubt that this experience, this dream of existence that we all are sharing, is not also happening to a Cosmic Awareness”
I have no idea what you are talking about here. WTF is a Cosmic Awareness? When most of us talk about God we mean an omnipotent, benevolent lawgiver that demands that it be worshiped. If you’re talking about something that doesn’t meet that definition, that’s a whole different argument.
@Snow
“How would you know what is right and wrong?”
The Categorical Imperative and Utilitarianism are two concepts that I think about when making moral decisions, neither require a God. In fact, you should read the Socrates’ dialogue with Euthyphro, where this exact question is discussed. Socrates argues that even if the Gods tell us what is right and wrong, that there still must be some reason why they Gods decide one thing is right and another wrong. So if we can figure one why how the Gods decide right and wrong, then we don’t need the Gods to tell us right and wrong, we can figure it out for ourselves.
@SneakySnake:
www.adherents.com claims that there are 4200 different religions. Good luck picking the right one.
@Alec: Read farther down, you ignorant illiterate cunt. It’s after the church section.
@The Matrix: Rebooted: I agree with you in principle but Utilitarianism is bullshit. You’ve got ‘ends vs means’ ‘the difficulty of predicting’. Or howabout the fact that happiness is often not morally certain and in fact the great number of people are happy at the suffering of others. That kind of thinking would brutalize society. We’d see the return of minorities being fed to the lions in the coliseums.
I agree that morality doesn’t require God but please don’t say ‘utilitarianism’. I hate that almost as much as Alec’s inability to read an entire document before making a dumbass post.
Also at ack, possibly the biggest cunt of them all: Have you considered the possibility that sneaky snake was being flip and funny? That’s how I read it. That + being a fucking rascist shit makes you the biggest cunt on this site and the fact that you seem 100% earnest makes me actually miss Iddq you dumbfuck.
And yes I realize that it was haelduksf who said that but I don’t know who that is so I’m blaming that shithead Ack.
Wow. You’re a bigger troll than I thought.
It’s an interesting trolling technique too.
You make a few posts that are coherent.
And then lose the plot.
Then start personal insults, profanity, and multiple repeat posting.
Seriously now. Does mom know that your online again?
@Caio
Utilitarianism is not complete bullshit. It’s also not the mathematically precise system of morals that Jeremy Bentham hoped it would be. And it really fails if when you are dealing with statistically large groups for exactly reasons you mentioned.
Still, I do think it’s valuable in a lot of personal ethics situations where you can have more or less complete information about what constitutes happiness for each of the involved players.
Besides I only said that I consider those principles, not that I’m slavishly devoted to them.
I want that animated fractal sequence as a screensaver.
this has nothing to do with anything but i like time bandits explanation about god and reason… so the devil a reasonable guy says god is such a dumbass for inventing butterflies, dandelions, and can you believe this slugs, things without purpose. if i was in charge i would have started with lasers, microwave ovens, televisions and computers i would have such a more purposeful world…
@Caio:
You could also check out Kant. He’s a bit more idealistic, and where the means outweigh the ends. I dunno, check out a philosophy book on morality. You’ll find quite a few viewpoints.
And quite a few without any sort of reference to God.
“If there is a ‘god’ and this god is truly supposed to be omnipotent, then why does this god need us here on earth to pray and worship them. The entire basis of modern religions is flawed.”
Where does it say that god “needs” us? If god exists ( personally i think he or it does) and created us how could one logically argue that an all powerful superior intelligence would need an underling to reassure his existence or to give glory,? In Judaism/Christianity man was not created to worship god otherwise he would not have been imbued with freewill and on top of that the sole purpose of the Angels is to worship and serve god.
I think it was in a Tom Robbins novel, maybe Another Roadside Attraction, where he says, something like, “People will give you the same stupid look if you tell them God doesn’t exist as they will if you say that He does.”
…Which is probably why every post about religion around here is 30+ comments.
% of atheists who make it to heaven:
0%
trollin’ wit da homies
% of theists who make it to the fictional heaven:
0%
——–
I do not “believe” there is no God, I’m convinced that no God or gods exist. I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one.
One might ask, “Isn’t belief that there is not a god just as irrational, arrogant, etc. as belief that there IS a god?” No, for several reasons. First of all, I do not “believe” that there is not a God. Belief has nothing to do with it. I believe or don’t believe my 4 year old daughter when she tells me she didn’t make that mess on the floor. I believe in justice and fair play (though I don’t know exactly how we achieve them). I don’t accept the currently fashionable assertion that any view is automatically as worthy of respect as any equal and opposite view. My view is that the moon is made of rock. If someone says to me, “Well, you haven’t BEEN there, have you? You haven’t seen it for yourself so MY view that it is made of Wisconsin pepperjack cheese is equally valid,” then I can’t even be bothered to argue. The burden of proof in the case of God, as in the case of the composition of the moon, has shifted radically. God used to be the best explanation we had. But we’ve now got vastly better ones. God is no longer an explanation of anything but has instead become something that would itself need an insurmountable amount of explaining. So I don’t think that being convinced that there is no God is as irrational or arrogant a point of view as belief that there is. The matter does not call for evenhandedness at all.
Win if true. Otherwise, dreadfully faily.