“When I am this party’s nominee, my opponent will not be able to say that I voted for the war in Iraq; or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran; or that I supported Bush-Cheney policies of not talking to leaders that we don’t like. And he will not be able to say that I wavered on something as fundamental as whether or not it is ok for America to torture, because it is never ok‚ I will end the war in Iraq‚ I will close Guantanamo. I will restore habeas corpus. I will finish the fight against Al Qaeda. And I will lead the world to combat the common threats of the 21st century: nuclear weapons and terrorism; climate change and poverty; genocide and disease. And I will send once more a message to those yearning faces beyond our shores that says, “You matter to us. Your future is our future. And our moment is now.”
-
My[Confined]Space
Better Than Bread
Movies Coming Soon- Star Trek Books
- “Star Trek: Voyager: 16 Seven Of Nine” Review by Deepspacespines.com
- Nana Visitor Joins Us to Talk About Her New Book – Star Trek: Open a Channel: A Woman’s Trek!
- Out Today: “Star Trek #26”
- Star Trek Strange New Worlds Asylum Book Review
- John Jackson Miller Books Ranked!
- “Star Trek: The Next Generation: Headlong Flight” Review by Lessaccurategrandmother.blogspot.com
- Jumping into Adventure with “Into the Void”
- Happy 2024 Birthday to Jim Johnson!
- “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds: Asylum” Review by Trek.fm
- Beadle & Grimm Interview With StarTrekBookClub.com
- Movie Related Products
- “Deadpool & Wolverine” Review
- Kevin Smith Is Getting Closer and Closer to Dogma 2
- “The Garfield Movie” Review
- Disney Said to be Considering a Surprising Replacement for Bob Iger: EA CEO Andrew Wilson – IGN
- Amazon Is Shutting Down Freevee, Its Ad-Supported Video Streamer
- “Breathe” Review
- “Transformers One” Review
- Captain America: Brave New World | Official Trailer
- Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | D23 Brazil Special Look | In Theaters May 2, 2025
- Mattel apologizes after mistakenly printing porn site on ‘Wicked’ movie dolls packaging | CNN Business
- Music Video DB
Yeah, doesn’t really impress me at all. Just more babble that won’t happen. Lets move to Canada or something.
I’d like to believe that he would follow through on his claims…would be a nice change!
And how exactly does he plan to do all these things? With the power of Carebear stare?
Why so incredulous?
Ending the War in Iraq, closing Gitmo and restoring habeas corpus could all be done with the signing of an order. He’s not promising rainbows and sunshine, those are all realistic expectations.
I’m not saying his promises are ludicrous, but HOW does he plan on accomplishing these things? I can say “I will become an astronaut and fly to Mars” but when someone asks me HOW, I can say “by going to college and studying math, aerodynamics, taking pilots lessons, applying to the air force, submitting a resume to NASA, applying for the space program” and have a series of steps in order to reach my goals. How does Iraq Osama plan on doing these things? He does know that he is going to be blocked or helped by the other members of the government, this isn’t a dictatorship where HE has the power to do whatever he wants (and I’m sure this will be his excuse when he can’t deliver on some/all of his promises). I’m asking for an explanation on these promises. Also, I’m not entirely interested in the answer, because I know how false any politicians promises are.
Also, “ending the war in Iraq” is a pretty stupid statement. I hate arguing politics, but, there is a reason we are there. Terrorists (Al Qaeda, and other offshoot organizations) WANT to kill Americans, and I’ve read about attacks in Spain, France, Germany, and Britain, so I’m sure those countries might want to take notice, but, even if we (America, and our allies, etc) “pull out” of Iraq/Afghanistan then there will be attacks elsewhere, because terrorists want to kill innocent people, and cause fear and terror (the goal of terrorism is to spread terror to achieve ends) by destruction. So, if we don’t fight terror in Iraq (a desert shit-hole for the most part) then where do we fight it? In the streets of America? In rural urban areas where innocent people live? Or do we let our military (our = America to me, or, the military of all countries that wish to fight terrorism, or keep terrorists out of their countries) fight them somewhere we won’t have colossal collateral damage (think back to Superman vs Doomsday, or any other massive battle where there is a ton of damage to urban cityscapes) and innocent people (people who are just going about their day and then all of a sudden blow up) die. The war on terror isn’t JUST a war against Iraq, but it sets a battleground of our choosing, a focal point to minimize losses.
All Obama says is a noun, verb, and CHANGE
www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_War_+_Peace.htm
Obama on when he would get the troops out:
(Democratic Presidential Debate on MSNBC, moderated by Tim Russert, at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, Sept. 26, 2007)
Q: Will you pledge that by January 2013, the end of your first term, there will be no US troops in Iraq?
Obama: I think it’s hard to project four years from now, and I think it would be irresponsible. We don’t know what contingency will be out there. I believe that we should have all our troops out by 2013, but I don’t want to make promises, not knowing what the situation’s going to be three or four years out.
….The only way we’re going to stabilize Iraq and make sure that al Qaeda does not take over in the long term is to begin a phased redeployment so that we don’t have anti-American sentiment as a focal point for al Qaeda in Iraq. We can still have troops in the region, outside of Iraq, that can help on counterterrorism activities, and we’ve got to make sure that they don’t establish long-term bases there….
I don’t get it? Doesn’t this just prove my point?
you fuckers dont want change. AMERICAN TROOPS ARE IN 130 COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.
WE
ARE
STILL
IN
FUCKING
KOREA!
WE SPEND, ER I MEAN BORROW, A TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR DOING THAT SHIT!
a trillion dollars is a stack of $100 bills 631.33 MILES high. and we spent that LAST YEAR killing people in Iraq.
we have lost more people in Iraq than we did on 9/11.
WE ARE SAFER ON OUR OWN SHORES. UNLESS OUR MILITARY IS STRUNG OUT ALL OVER THE FUCKING GLOBE.
what happens if we get attack and our troops are away?
wake the fuck up people.
oh wait. dont. elect a bunch of scurvy pirates.
Obama then closed this elegant speech with yelling “get your popcorn ready!” into the microphone and then storming off.
“what happens if we get attack and our troops are away?
wake the fuck up people.”
We won’t be attacked, because we gave them (terrorists) somewhere to go OTHER than the shores of the Great Satan. Also, we have national guard. Not all of our troops are deployed, we have a STRONG force still in country (USA). Plus, our freedoms (civil liberties that everyone is saying we are losing) prevent us from preventing an attack, because there is no way to preempt anything that we don’t know about. Unless we spy on everyone (ZOMG WE CAN’T DO THAT!?!?!?!?!?!) to figure out WHO the bad people are.
the war on terrorism is a fucking joke. it’s a dick in your ass, schulzbrianr.
2/3’s of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. but we’re in fucking Iraq and Afghanistan. WTF? we just sold the Saudi’s $20 Billion worth of weapons.
www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html
it’s a scam. the private military contractors that the US taxpayer pays make 6 figure salaries while our soldiers are making dick. halliburton’s making billion$ off of genocide.
Jesus, is that what that thing was? No wonder it was so hard to poop.
yes, let us give up our freedoms so we can be safe.
give up your guns, so you can be safe. give up your privacy so you can be safe. give up your thoughts and opinions so the terrorists dont kill us.
you’re a fucking joke, schulz.
look at teh soviets. they didnt get taken over, THEIR CURRENCY WENT TO SHIT AND TOOK THEIR ECONOMY WITH IT. teh Soviets had 40,000 nukes pointed at us and we fucking made it through easy. but now people like you, are scared of uneducated, greasy, third world arabs with boxcutters who operate out of caves.
our dollar is worth 4 fucking penneis compared to when the Fed took over. but noooo, let’s borrow 150 billion dollars from the chinese to cut americans a ‘tax rebate’ check so they will go out and buy chinese shit to stimulate the american economy? fuck you, schulz. fuck you and all the other americans like you.
natedog, if you hate America so much, then please move to Canada, Europe, or Australia.
I didn’t say give up our freedoms jackass. I said that we can’t prevent horrible things in our free society, so to achieve total safety, we have to give up our freedom. I say it’s not worth it, but you asked how we could be safe, or at least implied we weren’t, so I gave a solution. If you’ve ever read any of my other posts, you’d find out I own one, and plan to own LOTS more, guns. I love guns. I would NEVER give up ANY of them. And, I’ll use one of my favorite quotes from “Sum of All Fears”: It’s not the guy with 1,000 nukes I’m worried about. It’s the guy with one.
Also, diabeetus, I’d love that too, but unfortunately we can’t kick out or get rid of every idiot. Then those of us left would have an entire state to ourselves. He’s allowed to stay and be stupid, because that isn’t a crime (yet).
Post 12:
“Plus, our freedoms (civil liberties that everyone is saying we are losing) prevent us from preventing an attack, because there is no way to preempt anything that we don’t know about. Unless we spy on everyone (ZOMG WE CAN’T DO THAT!?!?!?!?!?!) to figure out WHO the bad people are.”
diabeetus, piss off. i dont hate america, ya word twisting fag.
i love america and am pissed because the economy is going to shit because we spend too much money on the bullshit war.
i love the country. we need our troops alive and home, not dead on foreign shores because of A THOUSAND FUCKING LIES BY BUSHco.
and? Again, I gave a scenario. I said “we can’t know who the bad people are, unless we know who EVERYONE is.” Also, I’ve asked before (to people who say our freedoms are disappearing) “name one liberty you have lost. Name one thing you used to do BEFORE 9/11 that you CAN’T DO NOW because it is illegal.” The best someone could come up with was Jose Padilla, who is a pretty lame argument, because he was a criminal in the first place, who got perhaps extreme treatment, not a total abuse of the law where an innocent man was arrested and kept in jail without a trial. So, before you think you know what I said, try and read it twice to figure out if there’s something between the lines.
What a sad day when natedog is the sane one in a comment thread.
schulz, go back and read the other thread where you were empirically shown by 3 different people that war in Iraq has nothing to do with preventing terrorism.
2nd the “diabeetus, piss off”, speaking out you mind and questioning authority is the MOST AMERICAN THING YOU CAN DO, its the foundation of the country, the motherfucking first amendment.
schulz, if you spend half the time learning as you do posting, you could go read Obama’s website where he explains how he plans to do those things on practically a day to day basis. The answers to the questions you’re asking are out there, they’re just not going to spoon fed to you.
“Name one thing you used to do BEFORE 9/11 that you CAN’T DO NOW because it is illegal.”
Restrictions on chemical supplies for research, restrictions on model rocket hobby supplies, taking a water bottle onto an airplane, getting onto an airplane with ID, walking around in public without an ID. That’s just off the top of my head.
“At least he admits to smoking crack, Vote for Barrack!”
So you’ve been arrested for one of these things? Also, the war in Iraq does have to do with terrorism. See how our country hasn’t been attacked by terrorists since? Also, fine, if you want to get semantic, it doesn’t “prevent” terrorism, it just gives it a safe outlet.
I won’t go read Obama’s website, because I don’t care.
You had to have an ID to get on a plane before. You can take water on an airplane. I’ve done it. I never walked around in public before without an ID, and you shouldn’t either. Model rocket hobby supplies? Restrictions on chemical supplies for research? What are you ordering for? What chemicals. Also, I don’t really care. I’m just asking questions for you to think about, I don’t care about the answer.
I would go back to other threads, but Ciao gives me some thesis and I don’t feel like reading about politics all day. The internet has porn for a reason.
I shouldn’t jump into this hornet’s nest, but I kinda agree with natedog.
I love the USA, but we do waste a shitload of money on wars we don’t need to be fighting, and giving extravagent gov’t contracts to Cheney’s buddies. Not to mention China and the business we give them by buying their crap.
Ya know why women were stay at home moms in the 50’s? Because the US workforce produced over 50% of the world’s goods. Those jobs are now in China.
@schulzbrianr
~
2 things:
~
1) Al-Quada membership has ballooned since the Iraq war
2) Before the Iraq war, we hadn’t had a (foreign) terrorist attack since Pearl Harbor. Did going to war in Iraq pre-emptively prevent that terrorism?
“See how our country hasn’t been attacked by terrorists since?”
This rock keeps away tigers, notice how there’s no tigers around.
“I never walked around in public before without an ID, and you shouldn’t either.”
Your papers, please. That used to be the difference between us the commies.
“I don’t care about the answer.”
If you don’t know and you don’t care, please, don’t vote.
“I don’t feel like reading about politics all day.”
Yet, here you are…
Oh, yeah:
“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
~Benjamin Franklin
Paul:
1) If it has, that just means we have more terrorists to kill
2) Pearl Harbor wasn’t a terrorist attack, it was a kamikaze attack by a foreign military. Also, how cheap/easy was powerful/small explosives for radical Islamists to strap to themselves prior to then, and how much of a Great Satan were we.
reboot:
good analogy. I can’t wait to see how you are when there ARE tigers around.
I wish we could go back to the days when the world was a nice(r) place too.
I don’t plan on voting.
I’m not here reading about politics. I’m here arguing about candidates, and how everything they say is meant only to get voters, because you can’t win by being the best candidate, but by being the one with the most money, or the best speeches, or charisma, etc.
Also, KerryII, not to argue completely with you, but, just because a product is made in China doesn’t mean it is a Chinese product, just that it is produced there. US companies use China because of the cheap labor. Unfortunately, women are now empowered, and we can’t pay them shit wages. And as far as “wars we don’t need to be fighting” that could be argued about WWII as well, or WWI, or something. We could remain isolationist, or whatever, but, look what happens when we do. Unfortunately, the UN won’t step up and police the world, so we have to spend money ourselves to do it. It may not always be the best thing, or the right thing, but at least it’s something.
Oh, and Paul:
There has to be a balance. I’m sure even Ben would agree with me on that.
And reboot:
This site isn’t 100% politics all day. I’ll comment on images (or in this case words) that I have an opinion on. If it was my site, I would run it differently. It’s not, so I go with the flow as best I can.
@Shulzbrianr
O_O?
Seriously, does cognitive dissonance ever affect your brain, or you truly that oblivious?
Point 1 completely contradicted what you previously said, that going to war in Iraq helps prevents terrorists attacks, and then you embrace the fact that it makes us less safe because it gives us, “…more terrorists to kill?”
~
I don’t even know how to respond to your second point. It starts out with semantics, then begins a sentence with a question that devolves into I don’t know what.
~
dl;tr – I would keep away from serious debates if I were you.
You’re right, I’m complicated. Let me try to ‘splain.
1) If someone joins Al-Qaeda, then it is someone who wants to attack America, and wants to seek the means to do so. If they are in Al-Qaeda, it gives us (The US) justification for aggression against them. It also makes it easier to categorize, because they are a member of a group who’s motives we have established, and we don’t need to spend more time/money (resources) to figure out the motives of a NEW group (which ultimately has the same goal). In this way, it helps us combat terrorism by minimizing the effort we need to expend, and more rapidly ending the war on terror. Got it?
My second point is just that. The fact that it is now cheap and easy to make a bomb, and get people into America to blow it up is why there have been terrorist attacks. Not for lack of will, but lack of means.
Wow. I should leave this alone, but two points are just to tempting to point out:
1)”because you can’t win by being the best candidate, but by being the one with the most money, or the best speeches, or charisma, etc.”
_Then explain how McCain took the lead in the Republican nomination, when his campaign was broke one month ago.
2)”I wish we could go back to the days when the world was a nice(r) place too.
_You mean pretty much the non-stop war that took place in the world before the Cold War? Let’s see… the Napoleonic Wars, the Armenian genocide, France’s war against Prussia, the Hundred Years war, the Spanish American war to name less than 1%?
@shulzbrianr – Post 30
Well put, brother. I agree with you. My point is that the jobs being shipped overseas is hurting our economy.
War is a complicated subject. George Washington warned us of “foreign entanglements”.
Because he wasn’t broke? Or, he got more money? I’m a PI in my spare time.
No, I mean the days when there was no internet, and stupidity was limited to a far smaller circle. Also, the days when we didn’t need to worry about being slaughtered in the streets, or where THE WORLD WAS A NICER PLACE. I’d say the 50s, like you see in sitcoms, where everyone was happy. I guess the fact you cited all those times was because you were there, and it was nicer? Or were you making a point that the world has never been nicer? Then what does the war on terror have to do with anything? If the world has always been this way, then why bitch about it being this way NOW?
KerryII:
Well, if it was hurting our economy, then why would countries ship their labor/factories/whatever over there? Because I’m sure they’ve had people analyze the cost of it, and it ends up being cheaper. Meaning they can make their products cheaper (which means that people will more likely buy it over a more expensive product with the same function) and makes them more money. Which in turn helps the economy.
Its either a win/win, or a lose/lose. Also, I read recently (or maybe I heard on the radio, or TV, I don’t know) that companies like Dell and Cisco that were hiring people for helpdesk and customer support in India were losing/firing because of the fact that everyone I know (which means more that I don’t know) hate dealing with someone they can’t understand who just reads from a checklist to resolve a problem with their computer. I will say it is frustrating to find a solution.
“I’d say the 50s, like you see in sitcoms, where everyone was happy.”
Okay, I get it now. You’re very convincing. Enjoy your trolling.
Well, I’m basing my idea of “when the world was a better place” on a time I don’t really know, but have been shown examples of in fictional settings. Enjoy your jackassery.
as to post #21, you said name ONE liberty lost, and i cited an american citizen who was denied his right to Habeus Corpus.
he may be a scumbag, but until he is convicted, he has rights. or he should have had a right. any american deemed an ‘unlawful enemy combatant’ loses their rights of habeus corpus, a speedy trial, due process, free speech, etc…
other examples:
First amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
free speech zones
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone
The Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act
Sixth Amendment
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.”
Now think back to Jose Padilla. oh wait, he is a scumbag, so fuck him.
Fifth Amendment:
“No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime… …nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.”
again, Jose Padilla was and still is being deprived of his life and liberty and property. he didnt get due process either. and how often do you hear about people’s property getting confiscated by the police department without being compensated?
Second Amendment:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192347,00.html
www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=198836
Eighth Amendment:
“Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”
so now pay no attention to the police state tazer happy assholes or the torture at abu graib or gitmo.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh#Capture_and_interrogation
“I don’t plan on voting.”
Thank you and have a great day. Looking forward to your comments on a pic with more lulz.
THAT IS OVER HALF OF THE 10 AMENDMENTS THAT MAKE UP THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
and who the fuck is safer now?
more troops are dead from Iraq than from 9/11.
Once again, you don’t cite yourself. You use rare extreme examples to prove my point.
“any american deemed an ‘unlawful enemy combatant’ loses their rights of habeus corpus, a speedy trial, due process, free speech, etc…”
ANYONE deemed an unlawful enemy combatant should lose their rights. You don’t give a Russian in this country American rights do you? Or maybe you do, I don’t know. But, if you are no longer an American, why should you be afforded American rights? The Geneva Convention affords rights to prisoners of a foreign, organized army. If you aren’t part of a nation that abides by the same laws of warfare, then why should you be afforded those rights by us? It’s time to quit playing nice with terrorists, they don’t play nice with us. Also, if you call what was done at Abu Ghraib torture, I think you need to go back to that argument of what torture is. If it doesn’t leave a mark, it isn’t torture, it’s just uncomfortable for a while. But way to cite the Bill of Rights as a defense for criminals. You would think that after you break the law, and are caught on it numerous times, you might want to rethink breaking it again, because since you have a history of being a douchebag, people might not think you suddenly became an angel of peace, and “innocent until proven guilty” becomes “he’s been guilty a half dozen times before, looks like he’s just a fucking chronic idiot.”
Yeah, troops. Not innocent civilians. Troops risk (and give up) their lives so that innocent people don’t have to worry about being blown up while they are going about their day. You’re welcome.
I was just going to leave this be and maybe I’m being trolled but:
“You don’t give a Russian in this country American rights do you? Or maybe you do, I don’t know”
The constitution only mentions “citizen” as the requirements for office and voting. All other rights are for “people” or “persons”, so yeah, a Russian has rights and an Iraqi has rights. If you don’t like it, GTFO :), its in the constitution.
“But way to cite the Bill of Rights as a defense for criminals.”
Yet, that is exactly what most of the Bill of Rights is for: criminals and accused criminals. Remember that all of the founders of this country were criminals. So was Susan B. Anthony and Martin Luther King.
More and more, you’re the one that’s sounding anti-American, not natedog.
schulz, you are a fucking retard.
its called checks and balances. it’s called due process. and you are not a criminal until you have been convicted. until you are convicted, you have rights.
you are not deemed an unlawful enemy combatant after a hearing, dick. the president just decides you’re a scumbag, and you lose. you dont even get to ask why they arrested you.
and i am citing myself. if I get deemed an enemy combatant, i get fucked. it could happen today. to you or me or any other american.
THE FUCKING TERRORISTS THAT ATTACKED US WERE FROM SAUDI ARABIA!!!
WE JUST SOLD THE SAUDIS $20BILLION IN WEAPONS!!
AND WE INVADED IRAQ, WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 OR AL-QAIDA UNTIL WE WENT OVER THERE.
BUSH AND HIS BITCHES LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE 935 DOCUMENTED TIMES BETWEEN 9/11 AND THE START OF THE IRAQ WAR.
www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/
THEY LIED US INTO A WAR THAT HAS KILLED MORE AMERICANS THAN 9/11 DID.
HEAR THE LIES FROM THEIR OWN FUCKING MOUTHS HERE:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI7JXGqd0o
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?
WE ARE NOT SAFER. WE JUST HAVE LESS FREEDOM NOW.
and as to the whole point about how we have less freedom now, the simple fact of the matter is that the more laws you have, the less freedom you have.
the constitution was not written to restrain the people, but to restrain the government and limit its power. just read the 9th amendment, which i post here in its entirety:
Ninth Amendment
“The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”
or read the first paragraphs to the Declaration of Independence:
“IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.  That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,  That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.  Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.”
Politics no matter where you are seems as though they are the lesser of two evils. Sure, terrorism is obviously bad. However, you cant stop terrorism. There is no “setting the stage” “or making an example.” Thats the whole idea of terrorism. Terror, catching people by surprise. Aside from thinking that GW isnt the wisest of presidents, I pretty much stay away from politics (except for voting), but he made it clear what his agenda was (more defense spending, further deepening the economy’s black hole of a deficit) when he used fear to get re-elected. No offense to Canadians, but what the fuck? Since when has our economy been so bad that things cost more in Canada! Answer:?since the GWB lol. Folks, I may not a patriot such as you, but I love being an American and being in the USA, however you have to give it to Canada as well as some other countries. Why you ask? Well Canada doesnt need to spend ridiculous billions on wars and defense, because they know that there will always be a cowboy-style president in the states that will protect them. Therefore, they can spend money on CRAZY stuff like national health care, etc. Other countries can also sit back sipping on their drink of choice because they know the same thing. Its really bad when the coolest country in the world allows itself to operate like this. There’s no reason why America cant have its cake and eat it too. You cant solve every problem, but what we need to do is handle our affairs stateside, build up our economy, take care of Americans, then go from there. Thats just my two cents.
Right on! Yeah!
schulzbrianr:
“Yeah, troops. Not innocent civilians. Troops risk (and give up) their lives so that innocent people don’t have to worry about being blown up while they are going about their day. You’re welcome.”
My only question for you is, since when have you ever worried about getting blown up while going about your day? I don’t feel safe because of the military, I feel safe because whey worry, if its your time, it’s your time. I veered off there, but my point is that I grew up in a ice suburb ($400k plus homes throughout), and due to the fact that on three separate occasions in 18 years, someone was stabbed or shot to death in that neighborhood, growing up I was more afraid of someone locally killing me than I was with some terrorist. Sure the military is great, but sending people off to war on the fantasy that it will stop terrorism? Not so smart. Sure the troops sign up knowing they may risk their lives but I guarantee the president would allow his sons to got o war if he had any. In fact Im relieved there arent any Bush males to keep that legacy going. You also said troops and not innocent civilians. What is that supposed to mean? Troops have families just like any of us. In some respects you have interesting points, but Im really confused by your logic.
I had a typo: the president WOULDNT allow his sons to go to war.
I worried about getting blown up while I go about my day the 6 months I spent in Iraq. I had two close calls (while I was on base, a mortar went off less than a football field away, or went overhead and we never heard it detonate) that made me quite fearful, but I wanted nothing more than to spend more time there, doing something good. Yes, troops have families. But those families don’t go to war.
I agree my logic isn’t always consistent. Oh well, I live with it. I’m sorry that criminals are always active. But at least here you can have a gun to defend yourself, or some other means against someone who wants to directly confront you. A bomb is an indirect weapon, something you can’t really fight, like ghosts, or phantoms, they aren’t really physical. If someone comes up to you and sticks a knife/gun in your face, and demands your wallet, you can give it to them, shoot them, or whatever. If someone runs up to you and detonates a bomb, there is pretty much nothing you can do. I prefer keeping those kinds of people out of this country (America) and killing them whenever possible.
reboot:
Fine, citizens of any country get rights. What about people who are members of a terrorist organization? They abuse the rights we give to everyone inherently, and laugh at our laws that treat everyone as equals. So fuck them if they can’t take the joke. I’m the furthest thing from anti-American there is. I am anti-criminal. I want people to be able to live without fear (the possibility) of being victimized. That means that innocent people are protected, because certain people are out there hunting criminals, people who commit crimes, or are about to commit a crime, based on deductive reasoning from past actions.
natedog:
I can’t argue with you any more, because you seem to think that the fact we have a constitution protecting everyone means that everyone should be afforded those rights. I say no, that people should be treated the way they treat others. Same thing goes:
What about people who are members of a terrorist organization? They abuse the rights we give to everyone inherently, and laugh at our laws that treat everyone as equals. So fuck them if they can’t take the joke.
How’s this for an example for why we went to war with Iraq. Next time you play “Command & Conquer” tell me how you win. Do you parachute all of your troops directly into the enemies base (tell me how many casualties you have in order to successfully destroy the base), or do you build a strong base nearby, fortify an army, and then go in in force. We will do the same thing there (Iraq/Middle East), I expect. Strong forces in Iraq, and then branch out to neighboring countries. If you are ever declared an enemy combatant without cause, get a lawyer, prove your case, and then sue, because you seem to think that the president will randomly declare YOU an enemy combatant for some reason. I maintain that I have nothing to hide, so I have no fear of the government. Also, I think your capslock button is broken.
POLITICS LOL
First off, I’m not here to agree with, or disagree with anyone. I don’t feel like getting bogged down in arguments on this site, too. I just have one problem with a statistic/fact that keeps popping up every few comments.
“More troops have been killed in Iraq than in 9/11!!!!1!!!!!111!”
Well, no shit. There weren’t troops killed in 9/11. Those were civilians, dumbasses. Those in the armed forces (I know plenty who are proud to serve) signed up to go and fight our enemies. The people who lost their lives in the World Trade Center did not.
There is no POSSIBLE way comparing the amount of lives lost in Iraq to those in the 9/11 attacks makes sense, because 9/11 was not an act of war- it was an act of terrorism.
America would be better off if it went back to being isolationist, like it was before world war one. They’re rich enough and have lots of mineral and other resources, so they have no real reason I can see to keep messing with the rest of the world. I don’t see why they don’t just pull their troops out of everywhere. The cold war is over, so no-one is a significant threat to them anymore.
Hrmm, I have 3000 people in New York who argue that someone was/is a threat.
schulzbrianr: I see your point and commend you for serving your country. I guess my biggest gripe is that since before I can remember we (USA) have concerned ourselves with things that we just cant control. I think we can control what goes on right here on American soil. I think we could blow up anyone we wanted. But I truly think that after all this war shit is over we need to take a break from everyone else’s problems, and fix things here at home. I know, I know, there are too many people in bed with each other at the top of the food chain ( i.e. big oil, int’l oil ), but we are the voters. In the end, whatever downfall is lined up for this nation is our own fault. Mine and yours included. Just my little pipe dream……..
Yeah, again, I wish we could go back to simpler times (the early colonial days, the 50s, whatever) when we didn’t have to worry about being blown up by psychos, and, yes, we have huge problems in this country, but unfortunately, there are bad people in the world who want to do bad things to good people, so we need to stay on top of that while at the same time trying to do better here. To quote one of my favorite films “Troy” (damn, I can’t find it on IMDB, gonna have to paraphrase and hope I’m close) “I promise you, there will always be another war” so, good luck on there BEING an end to this war shit, but, hopefully we can get enough help from other nations who want to exist peacefully to take a portion of the burden off of our backs so we can concentrate on homegrown issues.
He forgot to mention both Jesus and the children.
PS: Iran and Iraq hated America long before Bush got voted in.
.
This guy seems to have all the answers a certain demographic in America wants to hear doesn’t he? What a good little politician. I think we should trust him….OHNO!!!!!!!!!!
I wish that there were simpler times, so I could go back and live there. Stuff has just been messed up forever… I mean, look at the Gilded Age, it would suck for me in the 50’s (as I have a vag), and the Industrial Revolution. America’s never really been isolationist- it should start NOW.
Magnus:
Yeah, no one will ever hold hands and sing the sound of music and shit, that I can agree with. Iraq and Iran arent the only countries that hate America thats for sure.
You know, there have been, like, three ‘go to Canada’ posts here. These aren’t the days of Trudeau, man. It would be overly-optimistic to say ’51st State’ at this point, as being a state would give us some kind of representation. Martin turned us into a fucking vassal, and Harper has been seriously considering downgrading that to ‘bantustan’.
.
Smart money is on Europe. Not only are they the only ones asside from China and Russia with the clout not to be made part of some informal empire. Plus, the emphasis on long term economic planning means there’s a hell of a lot less of a chance that it’ll all collapse, which could happen to the US at any time. Which means the US will be a third-world nation on paper as well as in reality.
Europe isn’t a country, it’s a geographical location full of countries. And, isn’t the European Union an empire of sorts? And, the US is in no way a third world nation in any reality. Good luck on that tho.
With all the military talk, I thought I’d post a quote from an article I read on Forbes.com. It stated that Congressman Ron Paul has received MORE military contributions than the other three Republican candidates COMBINED. Shouldn’t that tell you something?
Oh, really? I’m guessing you haven’t been to any other countries. Just using my own personal experience: I’m from Brazil, but have lived in the US (where I’m technically a citizen), Canada and Portugal. I can tell you, the kind of poverty that is present in Ohio, Oakland, half of SF, SoCal, Florida: It just doesn’t exist in the Eurozone (save a few towns in south Italy, maybe, and the outskirts of Paris) and is rare in Canada. However vibrant your economy is, the end stretch of impovershed factory towns, and the Ghetto-metropolises you have have more to do with South America than a Developed Nation. However vibrant your economy is on paper, in reality, there are a disturbing number of Americans who don’t reap its rewards.
.
I was careful to use the phrase ‘informal empire’. I find the EU to be quite formalized in their Empire building, and anything resembling a satellite state (Norway, Switzerland, a few African countries) is a major controversy over there. Power-sharing is the name of the game.
.
Lastly, you are right about bullshit election promises. There’s no way any of these candidates would every pull out of Iraq within the last few years unless their crazy. I was reading an article on the logistics and cost of pulling out of Iraq, and it would be near impossible. While I do want to see America out of Iraq eventually, an immediate withdrawl would do financial harm to the states, and probably fuck up Iraq even more. None of these candidates have the balls to even try, once in office.
The North American Union will save us all!
.
Or at least be interesting. I’m all for it because I like to shit get fucked. And I like swearing.
.
This thread has too much thought in it and not enough stupid. Thank the good lord for me.
.
Oh and I love America. Canada is like a feminine guy who stands there content in his own mediocrity and never really saying anything of any actual consequence. We just want you to like us.
Why so serious?
cause they got nothing else to do.
you know whats really funny people bitch and itch on about politics on this site never realising the real culprit … tiki … he has put up this quote sat back and watched as all of u got a beach of sand in your vaginas all the while screaming yes yes FIGHT fight for my amusement. you got us you sneaky drunk.
HA! 69, dude!
www.canadianshakespeares.ca/essays/images/BillTed3.jpg