Actually Russia did NOT win WWII. Without the US’s involvement the Russians would have been beaten as well. They were in pretty bad shape until the Germans were forced to pull back due to 1)the brutal Russian winter. (and if Napoleon couldn’t do it, what chance did the Nazis have?) and 2)the need to redeploy German forces due to the US attacks in Europe. That gave the Russians some desperately needed time to regroup and build up their forces again.
As for WWI, the US wasn’t officially involved. There were supplies/volunteers/advisors from the US, but that was it. Trying to claim that the US had a pivotal role in the Great War is just ignorant.

As for “France kicking ass for centuries in Europe”, well, you might want to reread your history before making such a sweeping statement. France lost it’s fair share of wars throughout history.

I personally don’t have a problem with France. It’s a decent enough country in it’s own right with a rich culture. They’ve made many contributions to art, science, cuisine, diplomacy and entertainment. (though I’ll never forgive them for Gerard Depardieu, yes I know I probably misspelled his name, I hate him too much to care.) They have an unsavory reputation due to their behavior as a culture/nation over the last 50-60 years. With their new president, that reputation may start to change. Only time will tell.

Up until recently, they WERE one of the few countries still using open air nuclear device detonations. Why they insisted on doing it I don’t know, since I think the planet had been poisoned enough with the testing that had already been done up to that point.

no, actually they pretty much beat the Japanese on their own in the Pacific Front. russian forces did drive japan out of china, tho since that was their backyard, it was in their best interests to get japan out.

The russian and uk forces were in a near shambles by the time the US finally joined the war. It was primarily the US that pushed the nazis back from the european front and into germany. The russians started their own retaliation on germany’s eastern front, but that front was largely abandoned by the nazis to fight the western campaign.

and here we go again. Maybe you should stop putting words in other people’s mouths and put the dick back in your own. If you could get off your Meme rant for half a moment and read my post i did NOT say the US did not participate in the war, i said
“As for WWI, the US wasn’t officially involved. There were supplies/volunteers/advisors from the US, but that was it.”
Yes, they intially had thousands of VOLUNTEERS involved in the war, but considering tens of MILLIONS were involved their role was not pivotal, which is what i actually said.
The drafting of 4 million men by the US in ’18 (towards the END of the war) was a move made by a government that was attempting to make up for the fact that they had largly distanced themselves from the war in the first place. It took the sacrifice of thousands of US men of THEIR OWN VOLITION and political pressure from the Allies to finally get the US to commit serious resources/manpower.

Maybe you should do some research that isn’t directly ripped off from Wiki, and isn’t as shallow as a kiddie toilet, you hack.

You’re sooo right, the fact that germany had overrun most of europe to the atlantic and the channel was “a sideshow”. The only reason german casualties were so high on the eastern front was because they had overrun the rest of europe with relativly little resistance and losses WITH RUSSIA’S HELP, and that when then did turn on russia, they managed to time it to coicide with the onset of winter. Piss poor planning/hitler’s justified paranoia of his russian “allies”/whatever, it was fighting a battle in the middle of winter on the russian steppes that did so many of them in. Not russia’s superior battle skills. And they still managed to wipe out stalingrad and cause a massive famine in russia.

Hmmm, let’s see….

I stated that due to limited resistance, the western front fell to the Germans much more quickly than their attack on the Russians….you said the same thing in your counter post.

I stated that the Germans were fighting their battles across the Russian steppes, which are much larger in area than the western front…you said the same thing in your counter post.

I stated that the Germans made a huge tactical error in attacking during the Russian winter leading to massive casualties….you said the same thing in your counter post.

As for forces involved, without the Russian involvement as their allies, Germany would have had a much more difficult time making the rapid gains in territory/victories that they did. Conversely, when they split as allies, it was those same Russian troops that accounted for the massive casualties against the Germans. By that point in the war, before the major US invasion, Russia was the only real threat facing the Germans, so OF COURSE they would account for the majority of German losses. My whole point was that without the US counterattack on the western front, the Germans would have had a massive base of resources/manpower/material from which to continue their advancement into Russian territory, while the Russians had scorched earth, limited resources/depleted troops and the Japanese at their backdoor occupying China. Add to that the fact that the Russians had a massive amount of territory to defend and proceeding from a defensive/siege style strategy is a losing one, the Russians would not have been able to maintain their hold against the Germans once the winter had ended IF THE US HAD NOT REOPENED THE WESTERN FRONT, splitting the German forces and, eventually, diverting the Japanese resources/troops as well, giving the Russians the breathing room on two fronts that they so desperately needed.

Are you so blindly committed to your argument that you cannot admit that point? And make no mistake, this is an argument, not a debate. All you’ve done is parrot statistics from wiki, instead of going into the nuances/facets of the conflict itself. While I’m more than willing to concede that the Russians did massive damage to the Germans, my POINT is that the US invasion prevented the Germans from solidifying their hold on their European conquests, denying them much needed resources. Trying to make the argument that Russia could have beaten the Germans with the resources it had at hand without help from the US is specious at best.

And whileI also agree that while the US holds a partially unjustified opinion of it’s importance in the war, it still deserves credit for its’ achievements in the European front and, more so, the pacific conflict.

and for the record, I’ve previously stated on this site that I don’t think wiki is a consistent or entirely factual resource to use in any debate. They have a too long of a record of misinformation, pettiness, egoism and inaccuracy for myself or anyone to blindly accept what they say at face value. Also, using ANY resource as your sole source of info is foolish. Reboot and I have disagreed in the past and he consistently uses multiple sources for his counterpoints in our debates, something I wish more people would do, but don’t expect as it would involve too much effort.

and wouldn’t those 3 months, july, august and september be the times when the germans would be pushing the hardest before the weather turned on them again, thereby pushing the casualty rates higher than in the winter months? And no, the russian winters affect on the conflict were no myth, as anyone who fought during it would tell you. (they have many first hand interviews on tape/video and print, feel free to check them out)
The weather played brutal havoc on men, equipment, terrian and supply lines. Trying to minimize its’ effect is the cynical POV, not the reverse.

According to you the guy who wipes Rocky’s face and gives him fresh water in between rounds is “the second front.”
So bombing the shit out of the german infrastructure for two years is “wiping someone’s face.”

“The second front opened in June 1944. Period. ”
Wrong. I’m going to say this again, do some more research. Your ability to downplay the aeral bombing campaigns is on a parity with your imagined perception of my downplaying of russian combat.

“Germans barely participated in Africa, Italy, etc.”
On the italian front i’ll agree with you, on the African front, well, i don’t know what you’ve been huffing, but the war in africa was anything but “barely”.

“The truth is that UK is lucky Germany was tied up fighting Russians, not visa versa. And if UK fell, US wound stand a chance.”
I agree, they were luck that Germany decided to attack Russia. UK was on the brink of losing all togther when germany opened up it’s russian front. I’m guessing you meant “if UK fell, US would NOT stand a chance.” By your own earlier post:
“It’s easy to remain unconquered when your only neighbors are Canada and Mexico, and everyone else is separated from you by the thousands of miles of ocean.”

So now you’re claiming the germans would have crossed the atlantic and defeated the US had they beaten the UK and Russia? Riiiight. You keep telling yourself that even though it goes against YOUR OWN STATEMENT FROM EARLIER. Add to that the fact that germany’s war machine would have been exhausted by conquering europe, while the US was just warming up. We won’t even mention the A Bomb, cause i’ve seen how riled up that gets people around here.

And with that, i wish you all a great weekend. If you are partying for halloween, be safe and have fun.